Treating CV like levels

[Lord Mhoram]

While I was doing conversions of the elements from D&D that I liked for my fantasy HERO game, I was looking at a couple of feats*, and I came up with the following build, one I haven't seen around before, so I thought I would share.

 

3 Levels Hand to Hand Combat (15) Can only use this on a phase when attacking (-1/2), -1 OCV penalty for each + 1 DCV, and Vice Versa (-1).

Total cost 6 points.

 

Now it might be a bit pricy at 6 points, but here is where it is useful - if the character is a CV monster due to dex (say a speedster in a superhero game), the six points allow the character to trade base CV the way levels allow you to trade OCV for DCV.

 

Nothing major, just thought I'd share a new thought.

 

 

 

* Power attack and Combat Experties for those that want to know.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

I might be reading that wrong, but:

 

Power Attack increases your damage at a cost to accuracy, but has no effect on your defenses.

 

Expertise increases defense at a cost to accuracy, but has no effect on your damage.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

I might be reading that wrong, but:

 

Power Attack increases your damage at a cost to accuracy, but has no effect on your defenses.

 

Expertise increases defense at a cost to accuracy, but has no effect on your damage.

 

Yeah. The trading BAB for AC for Damage, was just the inspiration for the concept.

 

I just sort of made it generic. Add in another level for a total of 4 levels at 8 points, and then you can trade two OCV for 1 Damage class (in Heroic games) and get a total of +2 DC for -4 OCV. But at that point, unless your CV is so much higher than everyone else around you, then it is likely much better to buy levels or a couple of martial manuevers.. Unless you want the chance for total overwhelming damage on a stunned or surprised opponent

[Gary]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

A better way would be to not base CV off of Dex and to have people buy OCV/DCV/Levels separately. Dex would be repriced of course.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

A better way would be to not base CV off of Dex and to have people buy OCV/DCV/Levels separately. Dex would be repriced of course.

 

Feh. I'm a traditionalist, I like the costs and structure the way they are.

[Black Rose]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

A better way would be to not base CV off of Dex and to have people buy OCV/DCV/Levels separately. Dex would be repriced of course.

 

If you did that, I recommend retooling SPD to be 1+(DEX+INT)/20, and recosting DEX at 2pts/+1. Without CV to inflate the stat, and reducing SPD's effect by half, all DEX is used for is skills and initiative. And, not to derail, but I think Lightning Reflexes is priced a bit high for it's utility. I'd rate "DEX, no combat value" at -1, and that at least includes skill rolls.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

If you did that' date=' I recommend retooling SPD to be 1+(DEX+INT)/20, and recosting DEX at 2pts/+1. Without CV to inflate the stat, and reducing SPD's effect by half, all DEX is used for is skills and initiative. And, not to derail, but I think Lightning Reflexes is priced a bit high for it's utility. I'd rate "DEX, no combat value" at -1, and that at least includes skill rolls.[/quote']

 

Lightning Reflexes is a much better deal in a campaign which uses Normal Characteristic Maxima - and that may have been taken into account when that Talent was costed - but I agree that for superheroic campaigns it does come out a bit expensive for the benefits.

 

I'll have to look up which Digital HERO issue has the HEROglyphs column by Steve on "Deconstructing DEX." Very interesting breakdown of the components of it IIRC.

 

Speaking of OCV/DCV Levels, the SAS translation matrix in Reality Storm was the first place I've seen a 5-pt. CSL for All OCV Only, the counterpart to DCV Only Levels. Steve has said that that was a special case to convert a Tri-Stat element, and not officially a part of HERO System; but I've been using it ever since and don't find it at all unbalancing. In fact it adds flexibility to character designs IME.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

The best way to model Power Attack and Expertise is just 3-point CSLs. When you choose to increase OCV, DCV, and damage, you aren't increasing the others (or at least not as much). So, it's already built in, no need to bother with fancy lims.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

The best way to model Power Attack and Expertise is just 3-point CSLs. When you choose to increase OCV' date=' DCV, and damage, you aren't increasing the others (or at least not as much). So, it's already built in, no need to bother with fancy lims.[/quote']

 

Yeah, that was the simple way. But when I was doing the work, I just thought "How would I build an ability that lets you treat Base CV like levels" and that was my result.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

Speaking of OCV/DCV Levels, the SAS translation matrix in Reality Storm was the first place I've seen a 5-pt. CSL for All OCV Only, the counterpart to DCV Only Levels.

 

I've been using them since third edition, IIRC. Definately since 4th.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

BTW the "HEROglyphs" column on deconstructing DEX is in Digital Hero #15.

[Markdoc]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

I've been using them since third edition' date=' IIRC. Definately since 4th.[/quote']

 

Yep, me too.

 

cheers, Mark

[JmOz]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

While I was doing conversions of the elements from D&D that I liked for my fantasy HERO game, I was looking at a couple of feats*, and I came up with the following build, one I haven't seen around before, so I thought I would share.

 

3 Levels Hand to Hand Combat (15) Can only use this on a phase when attacking (-1/2), -1 OCV penalty for each + 1 DCV, and Vice Versa (-1).

Total cost 6 points.

 

Now it might be a bit pricy at 6 points, but here is where it is useful - if the character is a CV monster due to dex (say a speedster in a superhero game), the six points allow the character to trade base CV the way levels allow you to trade OCV for DCV.

 

Nothing major, just thought I'd share a new thought.

 

 

 

* Power attack and Combat Experties for those that want to know.

 

Just me but I would tone the limitations in half. The attacking lim is only useful when the levels are in DCV, and assuming a fairly high speed character (you do use a speedster as an example) it is not much of a limitation, the other limitation seems a minor Side Effect that occurs everytime the power is used, a -1/2 lim iirc

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

Just me but I would tone the limitations in half. The attacking lim is only useful when the levels are in DCV' date=' and assuming a fairly high speed character (you do use a speedster as an example) it is not much of a limitation, the other limitation seems a minor Side Effect that occurs everytime the power is used, a -1/2 lim iirc[/quote']

 

I saw it more as a major Side Effect - you are loosing something equal to what you gain*As for the other, yeah it could likely be a -1/4. But the concept is something I built for a heroic level game I was planning on GMing, with lower points, and wanted the abiltiy in the 5 to 8 pt range, so that also colored my approach.

 

 

* And that may be a system bias there, I always thought Side Effects were generally undervalued - I always thought they should have a greater limitation value for the level of side effect you get. That likely biased my approach as well.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Treating CV like levels

 

The best way to model Power Attack and Expertise is just 3-point CSLs. When you choose to increase OCV' date=' DCV, and damage, you aren't increasing the others (or at least not as much). So, it's already built in, no need to bother with fancy lims.[/quote']

I would agree. The neat thing about the Hero System is that what Power Attack and Combat Expertise simulate come as default functions of all CSLs (other than 2 point levels).