orewashinigami Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I am trying to design the magic system used in The Abhorsen series by Garth Nix(Sabriel, Lirael, Abhorsen). Not really looking for designing the necromancy stuff, though it would be cool, just looking at The Charter for now. Any one have any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Ask a vague question... I think someone should develop teleportation devices like transporters from Star Trek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Re: Need designing a magic system ...Um, anyway. I might just handwave The Charter, at least the aspects of it that prevent you from talking about it. I only read Sabriel (it was fun, but I wasn't impressed enough to buy the next two). Perhaps you can give us a point by point break down of what we are trying to model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Re: Need designing a magic system If you would explain what the magic system does, more people than just those that have read the books could help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Re: Need designing a magic system If you would explain what the magic system does' date=' more people than just those that have read the books could help you.[/quote'] What he said. What book? What magic system? ... what? I'd love to contribute, but I have no clue what we're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Desmarais Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Re: Need designing a magic system From http://www.abhorsentrilogy.com/ The Charter underpins everything that exists in the Old Kingdom. Almost all things are described, contained and joined by it. The Charter flows everywhere, though in some places it is distant or blocked. Charter Mages are particularly attuned to the Charter, by birth or baptism, or both. To use the power of the Charter, a Charter Mage must visualise reaching into the continuous flow of the Charter and if successful, can then mentally select and grasp the individual Charter marks they need. A single Charter mark may perform some uncommon action, or several may be woven together to create a particular spell. The marks can then be spoken, drawn in the air, traced on the ground or used in other ways. Some Charter marks quickly fade back into the general flow of the Charter, and their effects cease. Others may persist for a long time, sometimes even centuries. Because there are an uncounted number of individual Charter marks and thus limitless combinations, most Charter Mages tend to use a very limited selection that they are familiar with. It is very dangerous to attempt to use unknown marks or unknown combinations. Even using known marks is not without danger, as reaching into the flow of the Charter brings certain risks. Charter Mages use an invented alphabet to record Charter marks and possible combinations that will form spells, to avoid actually invoking the marks. However these books and records are useless to someone who does not have a baptismal Charter mark, which is the first step towards being able to work with the Charter, rather than just being part of it. Free Magic Free Magic uses different powers, not contained and described by the Charter. Free Magic sorcerers and Free Magic creatures are inherently enemies of the Charter and those who use Charter Magic. All necromancers, save for the Abhorsens, are Free Magic sorcerers. The Abhorsens are the only Charter Mages who can also use Free Magic, though they must resist the lure of its more straightforward, angry power. In all honesty (and bearing in mind that I've only read the first book) the magic never struck me as being particularly unique from a mechanical standpoint - the uniqueness of it was in the flavor text. Your typical mix of Concentration, Gestures, Incantations, Magic SKill roll, & Side Effects (Charter mages have been know to burn their own lips mis-pronouncing a mark) seems to pretty much cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Re: Need designing a magic system I would suggest Talent: Charter Mark as a buy in cost to use magic. Concentration, Extra Time and Requires Skill Roll to visualize reaching into the Charter and grasping the Charter marks needed. Side Effects for trying to use unfamiliar Charter marks or misusing known ones. Side Effects could be swapped with Foci when using the invented alphabet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orewashinigami Posted July 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Re: Need designing a magic system Thanks guys, now that I look at it that makes sense. Now I am wondering how I should write the spells up though. I am thinking about using a VP, but am not to sure if that would cause balanceing issues, or if I should just write a bunch of spells up and say those are standard and if players have anymore ideas they should talk to me.....what do you think(imho, I liked the second book a whole lot more than the first book.) btw, thank you for the summary of the Charter John Desmaris. I recently lost internet at my house(and it has been a while since I have read any of the books.)so I apologize for my silence. So what do you guys think, VP or Spell List? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krieghandt Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Re: Need designing a magic system This is a perfect opportunity for player involvment. I would create several basic marks and several combinations (say, bout 20) and let the players help you come up with even more. of course you will need to rule with an iron hand here else they take advantage of your good nature. "known symbols" sounds like a knowlege to me. And I would have the VP limited to known symbols unless the disad, MegaSideAffects is taken. Cost of limitation, well glad you asked. I would use it to scale the cost of the VP for the campaign, anything from -0 to -2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Beware the VPP It may just be the people I have gamed with; never allow the power-gamer a VPP. If you decide to go the VPP route, allow me to point out some of the problems I have encountered through experience. Moderation. Too much of anything is a bad thing. Power-gamers will put 90% of their character points into the VPP. Why spend points anywhere else, you can also cast a spell to make up any deficiency. Schticks. A large enough (Active Point) VPP pretty much makes the rest of the party supporting cast. Power-gamers ignore the fact that this ruins the game for everyone else. Choices. There was a fable I have long forgotten the specifics of, but the gist of it is a fox and a cat are attacked. While the fox ponders which of his 100 techniques he should use to defend himself with, the cat, knowing only one, runs up a tree. The fox is then eaten. VPPs allow such flexibility that everyone may be sitting around the table waiting for the mage to build the perfect spell for the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Re: Need help designing a Magic System Thats largly why I've avoided VPP systems, though my curent system resents much of the flexibility of a VPP, your still limited to spelleffects you have paid for. Alternatly you could [cannibalize] one of Killer-Shrikes many magic systems and adjust to taste...mmm needs more salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 You sir, are a cad. Alternatly you could [cannibalize] one of Killer-Shrikes many magic systems and adjust to taste...mmm needs more salt. How dare you insult KillerShrike’s culinary skill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orewashinigami Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Re: Need help designing a Magic System thx guys, this actually helps alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Re: Need help designing a Magic System You CAN use the VPP, but you end up making the VPP a special effect, or as I call it, an NVPP (a non-variable power pool). It allows people to purchase/learn new spells at no additional cost to themselves; the VPP becomes a giant "spell book" in effect. This won't work for everyone, but it simulates d20 Wizards well, because there's no limit to what spells they can learn. You can even include the "cost" of buying a spell, i.e., "This Fireball scroll will cost you 550 gold." But that has nothing to do with whether or not they can scribe it into their spell books. That's a separate mechanic governed by the VPP proper. Make sense? Second verse. I read through the Charter, which sounds ... well, pretty mundane, really. I'm sure some cool stuff can be done with it, but generally you're looking at a Talent based system (the Talent in this case being Bound to the Charter). Then start pulling spells out of the text with effects that you like. In answer to the limitations on VPPs, also, I tend to use Active Point Caps that keep people from becoming too powerful; my current suite of ideas for building my own magick system includes: 1. Purchase the skill for the school you want 2. Purchase your VPP; no "Killing Attack" or variation thereon may go beyond 4d6, however, the most points you can have is 90 - that forces a level of ingenuity in how spells are designed instead of just going hog wild and putting in a big old mess of 6d6 spell variations. 3. Everything picks up some obvious limits: Requires a Skill Roll (School of Magic), Gestures, Incantations, Foci (usually built as OIF, spell component pouch, although you can feel free to get specific and enforce it to change the cost of the spells). So when you go to build your spells, your design might look something like this: 25 Fireball: 8d6 EB, AOE Radius (+1), (80 Active Points); Requires a Skill Roll (Evocation, -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Extra Time (one extra Phase Per Charter Symbol, 3 phases total - Fire, Vision, Destruction, -3/4), OIF Spell Component Pouch (-1/2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Re: Need help designing a Magic System Thats largly why I've avoided VPP systems' date=' though my curent system resents much of the flexibility of a VPP, your still limited to spelleffects you have paid for. Alternatly you could [cannibalize'] one of Killer-Shrikes many magic systems and adjust to taste...mmm needs more salt. Personally, his Magecraft system - tweaked - has become my default magic system. I'm a hand-waver. It works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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