Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

[Wanderer]

First of all, I've just got Ultimate Speedster (at last!) and from the (very cursory!) skimming I've been able to give it, I must say I cannot but heap the (usual!) truckload of commendations and praises on Steve's and the authors' head: it keeps the very high tradition of the Ultimate books, it is of very high quality and usefulness, chock-full of good ideas, and it definitely passes the Chupp test. And here comes my query ...

 

You see, USp is chock-full of excellent ideas for speedster tricks, and I'd love to use some of them with my current character: a Superman-like energy-projector/telekinetic brick/semi-speedster hybrid. Now for the concept, some brick and speedster tricks would be appropriate, but character points being a finite quantity in this universe, I'd previously settled the issue with giving the Str a Variable Advantage and the character a high Dex and Spd. Now, reading the USp, the urge to give it some real speedster tricks, and by analogy, also some brick tricks from UBr, has returned. Which brick and speedster tricks, if any, would you deem most appropriate for a Superman-like character concept ? And how would you implement them ? Multipower, or VPP, or even Power Skill ? It would be a secondary branching out, mostly for flavour and occasional show-off and minor problem-solving, not the main character focus.

[Alibear]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

I assume you're talking about a 350 point Super, Dooper Superman homage?

 

It would depend on how man points you can afford to through at it. I personally would make it a small MP with a few limitations that you could improve with experience points. Perhaps one or two brick tricks and one or two speedster tricks. Add limitations for flavour.

 

Perhaps a 40 point MP with 4 Ultra slots and requires Brick or Speedster trick roll, extra time and or end, perhaps even concentrate 1/2 dcv. Again it depends on what you can afford and how skilled you envisage him.

 

Can he control his raw power yet?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

Would need WAY more info then what you've provided before I could start making suggestions. Or are you just looking for some of the "classic" Brick Tricks/Speedster Stunts for which Superman is actully known?

[Wanderer]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

I assume you're talking about a 350 point Super' date=' Dooper Superman homage?[/quote']

 

Dude, I'm honestly persuaded that *no* homage to Superman might be honest unless it involved at least 1000-1200 pts. or at the very, very least 750-900 if you ruthlessly maximize point efficiency and build up limitations, and believe me, I've tried very, very hard. If you need a look at what I've done, look at http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=971412#post971412. It's not quite up-to-date, since I've kept tinkering here and there, but it gives you a good idea of the general concept.

 

Can he control his raw power yet?

 

Well, I'd say he has some serious issues with controlling powers, since I've given him serious Activation Roll and Side Effect limitations (both for concept, and to abate point total). So some limitations in that sense would be most in concept: I rather dislike the mechanism of RSR, and prefer to use AR to do that idea whenever possible.

 

Would need WAY more info then what you've provided before I could start making suggestions. Or are you just looking for some of the "classic" Brick Tricks/Speedster Stunts for which Superman is actully known?

 

See above for the reference. Moreover, I both welcome ideas for bricks/speedster tricks that would be most appropriate to the particular concept, and for classic Supes ones: I love to tinker, adapt, and modify, but the sheer richness of ideas in the Ultimate books is leaving me dumbfounded.

[Alibear]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

I could make a leaping super-strong brick for 350 points...which is in effect what he was in his 1st incarnation.

 

Heck you could probably build issue 1 Superman for 250 points.

[OddHat]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

350 points for the Golden Age Superman works well enough, and a flying brick with a range of enhanced senses, an EB and a few Speed and Brick tricks can fit into 350. He won't be any more powerful than any other similarly min-maxed 350 point character, but that's the nature of point build games. For world smashing power without complex limits or handwaves, 1000+ points makes things much easier.

 

I use a Speed and Brick Tricks MP with increased END cost if points are a serious issue. x3 END Cost will get you a -1 on the whole thing, x5 END Cost a -2. The in game effect is that the Speed and Brick Tricks will only get used once or twice per scene (if that), which fits the source material pretty well. You could add a Power Skill roll, but I generally like to keep the number of rolls made in combat down. Still, tastes differ.

 

If points are not an issue, or if the tricks are the point of the character, I'd go with the VPP. Power Skill can work and is cheap, but the GM has to be willing to work with the player on it.

[Wanderer]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

350 points for the Golden Age Superman works well enough' date=' and a flying brick with a range of enhanced senses, an EB and a few Speed and Brick tricks can fit into 350. He won't be any more powerful than any other similarly min-maxed 350 point character, but that's the nature of point build games. For world smashing power without complex limits or handwaves, 1000+ points makes things much easier.[/quote']

 

I'm having the oddest deja vu sensation here, as if we had already discussed this same point... Sure, you can do a 350-pts. "liberally inspired" character, as they say in movies, but it would not feel like the real thing. It's the same thing as for other high-power icons: Thor, Iron Man, Green Lantern, Flash, WW, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, Silver Surfer, etc. Sure, if you harken back to the very beginning of the character's career, maybe you can find some version which might fit in 350-pts., but for the average fan who is aware of a good part of such career, or the current version of the character, it would nowhere feel like or resemble the real thing, even taking into fair account the usual caveats about translating comic icons in RPG terms. Simply put, if one wants to make an homage or a character inspired to a comic icon, and wish it to fit naturally in 350 pts., one picks Spiderman, Daredevil, or a lightweight X-Man. To look natural, JLA or Avengers homages have to fit in the Cosmic or Super-Cosmic (I keep thinking Hero needs a name for the 1000-pts. category) ranks.

 

I use a Speed and Brick Tricks MP with increased END cost if points are a serious issue. x3 END Cost will get you a -1 on the whole thing, x5 END Cost a -2. The in game effect is that the Speed and Brick Tricks will only get used once or twice per scene (if that), which fits the source material pretty well.

 

This seems the most useful suggestion, indeed., since as I said, such tricks should not be the point of the character, only something that is done occasionally (as it is for the Supes crew). Which tricks would you suggest as most appropriate ??

 

If points are not an issue, or if the tricks are the point of the character, I'd go with the VPP.

 

Indeed, that would be the easiest solution. A Cosmic VPP with a nice "Only for Brick and Speedster Tricks" (-1/2) Limitation, plus an Increased Endurance Cost, an Activation Roll and a Side Effect for all VPP slots. How big the

VPP reserve ??

[OddHat]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

To look natural' date=' JLA or Avengers homages have to fit in the Cosmic or Super-Cosmic (I keep thinking Hero needs a name for the 1000-pts. category) ranks.[/quote']

 

"Cosmic" should be "Standard Comic Book". For a detailed, faithful translation of most comic book Supers beyond street level (or even at street level in some cases), you'll need 600+ points. However, you can do a workable tribute for 350 points.

 

We may have discussed it before. If we disagree on whether or not the feel of a character can be preserved at a given point level, I'm not worried.

 

This seems the most useful suggestion, indeed., since as I said, such tricks should not be the point of the character, only something that is done occasionally (as it is for the Supes crew). Which tricks would you suggest as most appropriate ??

 

For Superman? A direct translation goes the VPP route, as over his career he has used most of them. A less direct translation can get by with Fast Tasks (Overall Levels reflecting Super Speed and used to move the time actions take down the time chart), a few of the teleportation tricks, area of effect selective TK, a couple more.

 

Indeed, that would be the easiest solution. A Cosmic VPP with a nice "Only for Brick and Speedster Tricks" (-1/2) Limitation, plus an Increased Endurance Cost, an Activation Roll and a Side Effect for all VPP slots. How big the

VPP reserve ??

 

If a Superman tribute has a STR of (say) 125, I'd set the reserve at around 185 or more to allow for really impressive Brick Tricks. YMMV and all that.

Size of the reserve is campaign specific.

[Wanderer]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

"Cosmic" should be "Standard Comic Book". For a detailed' date=' faithful translation of most comic book Supers beyond street level (or even at street level in some cases), you'll need 600+ points. However, you can do a workable tribute for 350 points.[/quote']

 

Of course, you can do a workable tribute, as in having the same general theme to powers and personality. I doubt, though, it would feel like the real or even close thing, given that the power divide would be too radical. Besides, it may be my personal bias since I much more prefer global/cosmic play a la JLA/Avengers to street level, but I feel no special reverence should be given to the 350 pts. threshold. If you can do more faithful homages at 600-700 pts, why bother with the so-called "standard" at all??

 

We may have discussed it before. If we disagree on whether or not the feel of a character can be preserved at a given point level, I'm not worried.

 

Me neither Especially taking into account the much more ahm, heated discussions we have been involved in.

 

For Superman? A direct translation goes the VPP route, as over his career he has used most of them. A less direct translation can get by with Fast Tasks (Overall Levels reflecting Super Speed and used to move the time actions take down the time chart), a few of the teleportation tricks, area of effect selective TK, a couple more.

 

Fine advice, thanks. I have to check how much pricey the VPP would end up.

[David Johnston]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

Note that Superman himself had no speedster tricks. He simply didn't need them.

[OddHat]

Re: Adding Brick/Speedster Tricks to Superman-like character

 

Of course' date=' you can do a workable tribute, as in having the same general theme to powers and personality. I doubt, though, it would feel like the real or even close thing, given that the power divide would be too radical. Besides, it may be my personal bias since I much more prefer global/cosmic play a la JLA/Avengers to street level,[/quote']

 

In my experience, getting the feel right has more to do with the GM and group than anything else. Global play is possible at any point level, so long as the GM chooses to allow it. The biggest problem is simulating the effectiveness of characters like Thor or Superman against real world military hardware or Alien battle fleets. At that point, if using 5thED CU stats for the hardware, you're better off going for a higher point total game.

 

but I feel no special reverence should be given to the 350 pts. threshold. If you can do more faithful homages at 600-700 pts, why bother with the so-called "standard" at all??

 

More or less agreed on this. Possible is not always desirable.

 

Fine advice, thanks. I have to check how much pricey the VPP would end up.

 

You might want to look at Supernova in Galactic Champions. I've found his build makes for a pretty effective Superman, especially with liberal use of the VPP.