Spiritual Attributes (Adapting from The Riddle of Steel TROS)

[Hierax]

Has anyone else tried to adapt the concept of "Spiritual Attributes" bonuses from The Riddle of Steel (TROS) game to the HERO System?

• Conscience
  
• Destiny (Anti-Destiny)
  
• Drive
  
• Faith
  
• Oath
  
• Passion

Thanks in advance!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Spiritual Attributes (Adapting from The Riddle of Steel TROS)

 

As game concepts, some of them; as Stats no.

[CourtFool]

The Riddle of Posts

 

I am not familiar with The Riddle of Steel. Would you please elaborate on what these attributes are/do?

[Hierax]

Re: Spiritual Attributes (Adapting from The Riddle of Steel TROS)

 

The Riddle of Steel (TROS), is a pretty brutally realistic medieval/ renaissance/ fantasy combat game.

 

Premise: what would your character be willing to kill and die for?

 

Spiritual Attributes in TROS "define a character's drive, motivation, and goals" and being able to push themselves ruther and harder because they truly care about it -- i.e., they give direct bonuses when one is fighting for something that they believe in a more direct way than in HERO.

E.g., HERO DNPC is a love burden that gives you generic bonus points that you can spend on anything.

 

E.g., TROS "Passion" (Love/Amor) gives you a bonus when you are fighting for the person you love.

They give King Arthur as an example:

• Anti-Destiny: To die at the hands of his own son, Modred (Penalty not Bonus)

• Drive: To find the Holy Grail

• Passion: Love for Guinevere

• Passion: Friendship for Lancelot

• Faith: Christianity

• Oath: Knights of the Round Table

• Conscience

In general:

• Conscience: doing the right thing in situations where the alternatives are more profitable, make more sense, less dangerous, or are more fun. Do right just because it is right whatever the cost.

• Destiny/Anti-Destiny: self explanatory but the character may or maynot know their destiny in whole or in part.

• Drive: powerful sense of purpose

• Faith: religious

• Oath: binding agreement

• Passion: love, hate, loyalty, etc.

There are many other examples:

• Samwise's Friendship (Passion) for Frodo allowing him to stand up to Shelob.

• Witch-King's Destiny to be slain by no mortal man / secret anti-destiny to be slain by mortal woman

• Conan's Destiny to wear a crown on a troubled brow

• Kull's Destiny to rule by his axe

• Napoleon's Destiny to Conquer Europe -- and nice examples of how the ficknless of fate was used to turn his very destiny against him

• Drive's of William Wallace, Alexander the Great, Hannibal, etc.

In a way TROS "Spiritual Attributes" do what Hero's Luck and Unluck do but in a more directly related character/story way. They are usually bonuses at important points in the story but can also serve as penalties.

 

I think that they are interesting innovation that takes HERO Disadvantages to the next level.

 

They could be bought in HERO in a variety of ways, with an "Only to x" Limitation:

• Overall (10-Point) Skill Levels

• Aid

• Luck/Unluck

That sort of thing.

[Hierax]

Re: Spiritual Attributes (Adapting from The Riddle of Steel TROS)

 

FWIW, TROS' "Spiritual Attributes" aren't unique. They are, for example, similar to Pendragon's "Passions":

• Loyalty (Lord, Vassals, Kin, Group)

• Love (Family)

• Amor (Individual)

• Love (spouse, God)

• Hate

• Fear

• Hospitality

• Honor

The concept is the same: get a direct focused bonus/penalty for things/people that are important to the character.

[CourtFool]

Re: Spiritual Attributes (Adapting from The Riddle of Steel TROS)

 

This is certainly an interesting concept. I have always thought that all characters should have drive and passion. However, all too often, characters are just a jumble of numbers that provide the most efficient way to bring down an orc. I have always thought that Disadvantages were a way to bring people over to the concept of playing a role. I think this would also make an excellent gateway.

 

I think Luck would probably be the best way to simulate this as already suggested, however, I would not use the standard use of Luck. I would use it more freeform as suggested in some of the options. More story driven than mechanic driven.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Spiritual Attributes (Adapting from The Riddle of Steel TROS)

 

To continue CourtFool's thought on using Luck differently...

 

First put it on a scale, from 1-5 for example. Each level costs 5pts like a die of Luck. Positive Attributes, Love for example, are bought to the level that the Character believes in it. Love For X at 3 Levels means they can get up to a +3 on a task (GM Decided based on story drive) involving that Love.

 

Give each character a certain number of points to dedicate to the attirbutes you want in the game (say, 25 points, for a total of 5 Levels to spread) and if they wish to spend more points from their "normal" pool for their character they have a set pt increase to put into it: 5pts per Level.

 

Negative Attirbutes are bought as Disadvantages, like getting levels of Unluck.

[Lucius]

Re: Spiritual Attributes (Adapting from Pendragon)

 

Attributes in Pendragon function something like Psych Disads; they can literally dictate a character's actions. Apart from passions, like familial love, loyalty, and amours, Pendragon characters also had a set of attributes that were paired opposites: such as Greed/Selflessness, Compassion/Cruelty, Piety/Worldliness, Justice/Arbitrariness.

 

Suppose a character is asked to sit in judgement on a matter, and is offerred a bribe by the party who is clearly in the wrong. He may have to roll to avoid succumbing to his own sense of Justice, and then roll against his own Greed, to have a free choice.

 

But the choices you make SHAPE the character; if you want your character to adhere to an ideal of Justice, you can, by consistently making Just choices, increase your Justice score until it reaches 20 - at which point, you can never fail to make a Justice roll if one is called for; your character will always do what he sees as fair and right, barring some extremely powerful countermotivation (such as a conflicting passion.)

 

Funny this topic should come up....

 

I was watching an episode of Babylon 5 recently, called "Believers."

(SPOILER ALERT)

 

 

 

 

 

 

An alien couple have brought their ill child to Babylon 5 seeking his cure. The surgeon can cure him easily - but it involves surgery. The aliens are adamantly opposed to surgery on religious grounds. The physician eventually turns to the Commander for permission to perform the operation even over the parent's objections. The parents (who hail from some distant, minor world that has no ambassador on the station) make the rounds of the alien ambassadors, hoping one will intercede on their behalf....all refuse, but I find the Vorlon's response most telling:

 

"The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to cast a vote."

 

In one sense, no one in the story has a choice; or rather, they have all already made their choices long ago, years ago even. The aliens, including the child, are committed to their belief system. The physicians involved have both taken the Hippocratic Oath. Even the Commander must make his decision on the basis of his own oaths and commitments, including the Babylon Charter. No one in the story could have acted other than they did; not without BECOMING something other than they were.

 

 

Perhaps this resonates with me because I have felt like that - that is, facing what seems a hard choice, and yet feeling I have no choice at all, and yet REJOICING in that knowledge that the choice has been made; by an oath I have sworn, a promise I made, or some aspect of my own character that I may not remember ever consciously choosing, but I know intuitively is "the Way I Am."

 

Some of my proudest moments, times I look back on and actually see myself as acting heroically, have been moments when I did not, at the time, see myself as having a choice; indeed, sometimes it did not occur to me that I could possibly do other than I was doing, and the odds or the risks just didn't matter.

 

 

This has gone on long enough; I didn't intend to ramble at such length, and I don't know where I'm going with this. Or if I already passed it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

For once, the palindromedary doesn't claim to know either.