Blocking Big Objects

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

The premise is that someone swinging a big stick at you.

 

Are you as a Gm going to allow him to block it? Strictly by the rules you shouldn't be allowed to, you can't block an area effect attack.

 

However, if your GM says it okay to use a block manuever against the big stick why can Powerman block it but not Speedyboy?

[David Johnston]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Because Powerman is strong enough to deflect it.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

..and Speedyboy can duck under it. I don't see the difference.

[David Johnston]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

The difference is that the block is taking advantage of the inherent OAF nature of improvised bludgeoning weapons. Because they are accessable, they can be blocked, just as Missile deflection works on grenades because even though the explosion can't be deflected. the focus can. But that requires the focus to be light enough to be moved by the character defending.

 

Or to put it another way, if the ogre doesn't swing the pole low enough that you can't duck under it, he probably missed anyway.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

The pole is about 9 inches thick, Imperial not Hero, and the hex is over 6 foot high.

 

Somewhere in that range Speedyboy can either duck under, step aside or leap over that pole.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Oh, and where does it say you have to be able to move something to use the block maneuver?

 

Hero is a special effects driven game, anyone can block any HTH attack and call it what they want.

[David Johnston]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Hero is a design driven game. The special effects are just dressing for the design.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Hero is a design driven game. The special effects are just dressing for the design.

 

 

You'll have to explain that one to me.

[David Johnston]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Suppose you design a character who has a shield that he can throw at enemies but don't get it with the focus limitation. Now, special effects say "Someone ought to be able to catch that shield or destroy it or at least wrestle it away from Captain Bermuda". But that isn't what will happen. Because he didn't get his EB as a focus, nobody can ever take the shield away from him by any means barring the use of something like a Suppress.

Now of course if his shield is actually supposed to be a physical object, that's a bad design. But the answer to that problem is to fix the design, not to ignore it and go with the special effects.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

That's a good example of the rules being badly applied to fit the special effect. It's the special effet which should be controlling the rules, not the other way round.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

The pole is about 9 inches thick, Imperial not Hero, and the hex is over 6 foot high.

 

Somewhere in that range Speedyboy can either duck under, step aside or leap over that pole.

A better example IMO is Bricky slamming a Greyhound bus down on the hex where you're standing. If you're not strong enough to block/deflect/redirect the bus, you're going to have to get out of the way. Could you use the Block mechanics to simulate that, instead of using Dodge, DFC, or some Speedster trick (combat luck, CSLs with DCV, or whatever)? Maybe you could; I just don't get why you'd want to?

[Robyn]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

That's a good example of the rules being badly applied to fit the special effect. It's the special effet which should be controlling the rules' date=' not the other way round.[/quote']

 

Well said. Reason from effect, not the other way around.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Are you as a Gm going to allow him to block it? Strictly by the rules you shouldn't be allowed to' date=' you can't block an area effect attack.[/quote']

Wait a minute. "Strictly by the rules," the attack isn't necessarily an Area of Effect attack, either. It is up to the GM to decide what benefits to grant characters who pick up large objects. I think allowing such objects swung as HTH attacks to be Blocked or Grabbed can safely be left up to the GM as well. Once in, "up to the GM," land, we require some creative and dramatic interpretation already.

[Jaxom]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

The pole is about 9 inches thick, Imperial not Hero, and the hex is over 6 foot high.

 

Somewhere in that range Speedyboy can either duck under, step aside or leap over that pole.

 

Sounds like a club to me, not an AE. See Bigdamnhero's post below about using a greyhound bus instead of a light-pole.

 

I'd have to look in more detail at the block mechanic to see whether or not there is any ruling that would affect my decision on whether or not a speedster could use it. If it entails stopping the attack on other people in the same or adjacent hexes then no way am I allowing the speedster to use block mechanics. Mostly because the argument that "I am knocking them out of the way of the same attack" strikes me as a much more complex action which is going to require something more.

[Robyn]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Mostly because the argument that "I am knocking them out of the way of the same attack" strikes me as a much more complex action which is going to require something more.

 

Move Through for Knockback only? You don't want to damage your friend, and you only need to give them a little push . . .

[Dust Raven]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

That's a good example of the rules being badly applied to fit the special effect. It's the special effet which should be controlling the rules' date=' not the other way round.[/quote']

 

I would disagree only slightly. There are examples of characters in fiction that have what most of us would consider a Focus or something that can be taken away, but for some reason, they always have it with them. Even in a situation where the bad guys have caught the hero, they never bother to take it away. Examples of this are rare, but they exist. In such cases, what the hero has is not a Focus; just a Power without such Limitations.

 

Of course, if that's not that kind of game and both the GM and the player agree it shouldn't work like that (or even if the GM just tells the player no, that Power in this campaign shouldn't work like that), the write up of the Power should change rather than be ignored.

[Robyn]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

There are examples of characters in fiction that have what most of us would consider a Focus or something that can be taken away' date=' but for some reason, they always have it with them. Even in a situation where the bad guys have caught the hero, they never bother to take it away. Examples of this are rare, but they exist.[/quote']

 

Rare? It took me half a second to think of someone who has this.

 

His name was Bond. James Bond . . .

 

__________________

. . . and the Focus was his watch.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Bond came to my mind instantly as well... but I've seen enough Bond films to recall enough times when he lost his gun or other gadgets or they simply didn't work right. Besides, Bond is easily a Heroic level character who isn't paying points for his equipment.

 

I'm thinking more of some of the pulp era heroes and a number of cartoon types who always have their trusty whatever. Boris Badenoff (sp?) from Rocky & Bulllwinkle is a fine example in that he always had one more stick of dynomite.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Bond came to my mind instantly as well... but I've seen enough Bond films to recall enough times when he lost his gun or other gadgets or they simply didn't work right. Besides' date=' Bond is easily a Heroic level character who isn't paying points for his equipment.[/quote']

Yeah. Usually after a single use. Poor Bond never seems to be able to hold on to his equipment. I think everything but his gun is bought with one Charge. Heh.

 

Boris Badenoff (sp?) from Rocky & Bulllwinkle is a fine example in that he always had one more stick of dynomite.

OKAY. I think you just signalled the death of this topic.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

OKAY. I think you just signalled the death of this topic.

 

Oops.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

A better example IMO is Bricky slamming a Greyhound bus down on the hex where you're standing. If you're not strong enough to block/deflect/redirect the bus' date=' you're going to have to get out of the way. Could you use the Block mechanics to simulate that, instead of using Dodge, DFC, or some Speedster trick (combat luck, CSLs with DCV, or whatever)? Maybe you [u']could[/u]; I just don't get why you'd want to?

 

 

This isn't my example, I'm just using the existing example.

 

The bus which does fill the entire hex would be unblockable for everyone but Ãœberstrong characters in my opinion.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

Wait a minute. "Strictly by the rules' date='" the attack isn't necessarily an Area of Effect attack, either. It is up to the GM to decide what benefits to grant characters who pick up large objects.[/quote']

 

 

Two bricks square off. One of them rips a light post out of the ground and tries to play Babe Ruth on the other' date=' using the lightpost (or bus, big hunk of the street, whatever) as an AOE attack.[/quote']

 

As I read the first statement, the GM had already given the green light for the AOE attack. That was my not my call to make.

 

Personally an object has to completely fill the hex before it is an AOE attack in my game, or it is as you say a big club.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking Big Objects

 

I would disagree only slightly. There are examples of characters in fiction that have what most of us would consider a Focus or something that can be taken away, but for some reason, they always have it with them. Even in a situation where the bad guys have caught the hero, they never bother to take it away. Examples of this are rare, but they exist. In such cases, what the hero has is not a Focus; just a Power without such Limitations.

 

Of course, if that's not that kind of game and both the GM and the player agree it shouldn't work like that (or even if the GM just tells the player no, that Power in this campaign shouldn't work like that), the write up of the Power should change rather than be ignored.

^

 

I was not talking about stuff from fiction. I was talking about the example given, nothing else.

 

 

Okay, I think I'm done with this thread.