SPD, but only for (x)?

[Foxiekins]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

I created a character that was Speed 4, with +2 Speed under Powers limited to a Fuel Charge... He would decide post-segment-12 if he wanted the extra speed in the next turn or not... He had a real incentive to drop the Speed Boost the moment he no longer needed it, as the Fuel Charge was 1 charge per day, and only 5 minutes long, in addition to the 12 point Suppress on his REC Characteristic while he used the Speed...

 

Alternatively, a boost to Speed could be a type of Concentration thing, with a Skill Roll made every post-segment-12 to determine your Speed for the following turn...

 

Of course, neither of these is Speed only for (x)... I would only allow something like that in a Symmetrical situation... i.e. Only if the higher Speed had a set of Phases on the Speed Chart that contained every Phase in the set for the lower Speed, so it would be obvious which were the extra phases... If the Phases didn't match up that way, I wouldn't allow it...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

According to the CKC write-up for Grond:

Four-Armed Combat:

+2 SPD (20 Active Points); Activation Roll 11- (-1), Only To Punch (-1), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

The text specifies that the GM makes the activation roll at the begining of each turn to determine whether or not Grond gets 2 extra phases to punch in.

 

I have a character who is gradually buying up his SPD. Currently, he has +1 SPD on 8-, and we run it the same way. he rolls at PS 12, and either has the extra SPD or not. Activation is an easy one. It's "restricted actions" that are tough.

 

That said' date=' I tend to agree with RDUNeail that "Extra SPD, Only To Do My Primary Attack" isn't really much of a limitation. (And allowing Cost END as a limitation when punching should cost End normally anyway is doubly questionable IMO.) Two extra 18d6 attacks for 6 points isn't what I'd call balanced. If a player came to me with this write up, I'd probably veto it.[/quote']

 

Even if Grond will punch every phase, I suggest his SPD is still limited. He cannot move, so if there's no target in HTH, he wastes the phase. He can't decide to do a Move Through instead. If he's prone, he can't get up. He can't Grab the prone character at his feet so he won't have such a tough time hitting him next time. If he's down to 2 STUN, he can't Superleap away. He can't take any of the half phase actions he would normally be entitled to before punching. Taken literally, he can't even take a zero phase action like making a PRE attack after laying a hero out with one mighty blow. I'd call that limited.

 

If he bought +2 SPD for 20 points, he'd get 2 extra 18d6 attacks every turn, with no chance he would not get those attacks, no restriction on other actions he could take in the phases and more END at the end of the turn (see below).

 

As for costs END, that means Grond must pay 2 END every phase of the turn to have his extra SPD available. Since he has to decide before he rolls for activation, he loses either 8 END (4 SPD) or 12 END (6 SPD) per turn. Not a big deal? Maybe - but only for a character who invested points in END or CON. And what if he just recovered from being at -12 STUN in PS 12?

[Anatosuchus]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

Well, I must say I wasn't expecting to open such a can of worms! In this case I think my looking at SPD was not necessary and that I can use other tricks to get what I want.

 

To KS, there is no point range. Certainly the PCs are just being created for existing fictional characters (who are defeintely normals) and I'm not really applying points to them. Similarly, I'm just going for "slightly trained normal" levels for this NPC so I'm just adding the bits I think they need.

 

Thanks to all for the info.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

Even if Grond will punch every phase' date=' I suggest his SPD is still limited. He cannot move, so if there's no target in HTH, he wastes the phase. He can't decide to do a Move Through instead. If he's prone, he can't get up. He can't Grab the prone character at his feet so he won't have such a tough time hitting him next time. If he's down to 2 STUN, he can't Superleap away. He can't take any of the half phase actions he would normally be entitled to before punching. Taken literally, he can't even take a zero phase action like making a PRE attack after laying a hero out with one mighty blow. I'd call that limited.[/quote']

Good points. Still not sure I agree, but that may just be a personal style thing. Either way I'm not sure it's worth a -1, `tho since he only gets a single half-phase action I suppose you could argue that's half the power's effectiveness.

 

As for costs END' date=' that means Grond must pay 2 END every phase of the turn to have his extra SPD available. [/quote']

Ah, that makes a little more sense. Wasn't thinking it through - thanks.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

Good points. Still not sure I agree' date=' but that may just be a personal style thing. Either way I'm not sure it's worth a -1, `tho since he only gets a single half-phase action I suppose you could argue that's half the power's effectiveness. [/quote']

 

I wouldn't give -1 for just losing the half phase, but by restricting himself to a single combat maneuver, Grond limits himself enough to merit (IMO) a -1. That means no Grabs, Sweeps or Haymakers, for example, even given his limited repertoire of attack actions. He can't even use it to break an Entangle!

 

Now, if he instead took the limitation "only for HTH attacks", I'd drop him down to -1/2.

[prestidigitator]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

Invariably things such as Two-Weapon Fighting, CSLs: +N with Sweep (or Rapid Fire) or even Autofire attacks possibly in combination with Autofire Skills will cause less of a headache. Not saying it can't be done, just that it takes some work both in terms of preperatory thought/ruling and in-game judgement.

[Foxiekins]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

I just had a notion... What about a x3 Autofire as a Naked Advantage, with the Extra Time Limitation at Extra Segment (-1/2)...? Then, to smooth things out, the first shot has no delay, the second occurs at the end of the next segment, and the third shot at the end of the segment after that...?

 

If you abort to a defensive action, you lose the extra shots as per the Extra Time Limitation...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

Invariably things such as Two-Weapon Fighting' date=' CSLs: +N with Sweep (or Rapid Fire) or even Autofire attacks possibly in combination with Autofire Skills will cause less of a headache. Not saying it can't be done, just that it takes some work both in terms of preperatory thought/ruling and in-game judgement.[/quote']

 

you bring up a good point.

 

extra SPD only for X, whether done with actual extra SPD or Duplication is just a power based method of accomplishing the goal. the examples above are more skill based (with the exception of autofire). Can a character with the SPD/Duplication method ALSO use the skill methods as well?

 

reminds me of the comparison between "skill levels vs. hit locations" and Find Weakness.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

I just had a notion... What about a x3 Autofire as a Naked Advantage, with the Extra Time Limitation at Extra Segment (-1/2)...? Then, to smooth things out, the first shot has no delay, the second occurs at the end of the next segment, and the third shot at the end of the segment after that...?

 

If you abort to a defensive action, you lose the extra shots as per the Extra Time Limitation...

Not a bad way to handle it, actually. Definitely worth a Stop Sign, use with caution, product not suitable for all campaigns, etc. But I can see it working well for some characters in some games. Not sure about the cost, tho; seems to me it ought to worth more than a +1/4 Adv with a -1/2 Lim. But I'm not sure I can support why I think that. :shrug:

 

extra SPD only for X' date=' whether done with actual extra SPD or Duplication is just a power based method of accomplishing the goal. the examples above are more skill based (with the exception of autofire). [/quote']

Personal preference, I suppose. I'd definitely favor the skill-based method myself, especially for heroic-level games. And even for superhero games I think I'd have to be talked into using the power-based methods.

 

Can a character with the SPD/Duplication method ALSO use the skill methods as well?

I'd say no; why complicate things even further? But again that may just be me.

[Alibear]

Re: SPD, but only for (x)?

 

In a normals campaign I would still okay the powers route. I wouldn't allow it to be stuffed into an MP unless the MP was very tightly defined indeed.