Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

[Markdoc]

Re: Pictish Swamp Devil

 

Hm... possible. I borrowed this from something in Monsters' date=' Minions, and Marauders[/i']. The Lecorcotta (argh... how do you spell it?), which Steve created. I'd have to check the Ultimate Metamorph for more.

 

You spell it Leucrotta and Steve didn't invent it - it's a mythical beast: a chimera of sorts (different medieval bestiaries combined a lion, a stag or goat, and even a badger) and able to speak with a human voice. It is (supposedly) derived from exaggerated stories about hyenas.

 

And it featured inthe first Monster Manual!

 

cheers, Mark

[Susano]

Re: Pictish Swamp Devil

 

You spell it Leucrotta and Steve didn't invent it - it's a mythical beast: a chimera of sorts (different medieval bestiaries combined a lion, a stag or goat, and even a badger) and able to speak with a human voice. It is (supposedly) derived from exaggerated stories about hyenas.

 

And it featured inthe first Monster Manual!

 

By created I meant the character sheet, not the creature itself.

 

My version is here:

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionscreatures/myth/dragons/leucrocotta.html

[Lucius]

Re: Leocrotta

 

You spell it Leucrotta and Steve didn't invent it - it's a mythical beast: a chimera of sorts (different medieval bestiaries combined a lion, a stag or goat, and even a badger) and able to speak with a human voice. It is (supposedly) derived from exaggerated stories about hyenas.

 

And it featured inthe first Monster Manual!

 

cheers, Mark

 

I've also seen it spelled leOcrotta, I think.

 

I've come across it in an Irish story. So it was a pan-European medieval mythic/heraldic beast?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary has appeared as far afield as Belgium and England....

[Susano]

Re: Leocrotta

 

I've also seen it spelled leOcrotta, I think.

 

I've come across it in an Irish story. So it was a pan-European medieval mythic/heraldic beast?

 

Sort of. I know it has appeared in several medieval bestiaries, all of which were made in England, France, and possibly other parts of Western Europe.

[Vondy]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

The Leucrotta is a pan-european myth with Celtic (not specifically irish) roots. The Celts were from Southeastern Europe before they spread West. Since the Celts made a huge impact in Central Europe, Spain (the Celts I find most interesting, personally), and the British Isles, the myth is common to all of them. On the other hand, the Celts also had significant early interaction with the Greeks and Romans, who have some myths similar (if not identical) - who got what from who (and when) is a matter of speculation.

[Markdoc]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

And interestingly enough it turns up (under another name) in the Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. That sequence was so briliant that I use it as a guide for monsters of this kind.

 

The short version is that the monster in that sequence not only speaks with a human voice, but can speak with the voices of those it has eaten *and* it seems to have access to the victim's memories, so that it can pose as the next victim's loved one. It raises the question of whether the person who has been eaten is still alive. Seriously cool presentation (and plays an important role in the entire story cycle too)

 

cheers, Mark

[Susano]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

And interestingly enough it turns up (under another name) in the Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. That sequence was so briliant that I use it as a guide for monsters of this kind.

 

The short version is that the monster in that sequence not only speaks with a human voice, but can speak with the voices of those it has eaten *and* it seems to have access to the victim's memories, so that it can pose as the next victim's loved one. It raises the question of whether the person who has been eaten is still alive. Seriously cool presentation (and plays an important role in the entire story cycle too)

 

Mark,

Nestor pronounced the series unreadable (to him). How is it? Does it resemble anything else i might have read? (as in, if you liked the style of X, you might like this?) Is it liked Jack Vance's "Dying Earth"? If yes, then I'll skip it.

[Markdoc]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

Mark,

Nestor pronounced the series unreadable (to him). How is it? Does it resemble anything else i might have read? (as in, if you liked the style of X, you might like this?) Is it liked Jack Vance's "Dying Earth"? If yes, then I'll skip it.

 

I loved that series - it's a big influence on my gaming world. But.... my guess is that you wouldn't go for it. I'm a big Vance fan too, remember And the only thing it even vaguely resembles is the Viriconium cycle by John M Harrison. It's a one of a kind series.

 

Wolfe is a very "literary" writer - he likes playing around with language and he likes to see if the reader is paying attention. So important details are slipped into the early part of the story, with no explanation and then pulled out a couple of books later, with no backwards references. If you missed it the first time through you often end up going "WTF??? Where did that come from?" And the story is told in the first person - it's Severian supposedly writing his memoirs - but sometimes, he lies about past events , which just adds to the fun of piecing the story together. Also, the story is fairly meandering:

 

***spoiler alert***

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The main character - Severian, who's a trainee torturer - gets exiled for offering a mercy killing to a "client" that he's fallen in love with (in a conventional fantasy he would have freed her and run away together). He heads off to his city of exile, along the way meeting up with a lot of grotesque characters. He loses his job, gets involved in politics, meets the emperor and eventually ends up emperor himself with the job of regenerating the world (it seems like it's more or less by accident - or perhaps it wasn't). That's it, basically, the whole plot, but it takes 4 books to get there.

 

I like it because it's really offbeat and offers something different from the standard fantasy fare. I mean how many characters are "trainee torturers?" I suspect the assassin character in Robin Hobb's first series is inspired a bit by Severian, but that's about it. The character is introspected and angsty, not because he's a torturer, but because he flunked out of torture school, disappointing his old teacher and his friends and proved a failure in his first job. There's a nice scene in the first book where he's arrested for "impersonating an imperial officer". When he protests that he is actually is a torturer, he's asked for proof. I don't recall the exact wording (it's been years since I read it) but he turns to one of guardsmen who arrested him and Wolfe writes something like "I stepped on his foot so he could not withdraw and with my fingers crushed the nerve in his neck that causes convulsions". No obvious remorse there!

 

It's .... different. So is the world, which is "far distant time fantasy" like the Dying Earth series. So The "citadel" where Severian grows up is a grounded spaceship that doesn't work anymore. The noble cavalry are armed with what sound like short range plasma weapons. Most people ride various riding beasts or walk, while the privileged zoom around in aircars that can no longer be replaced. There's lots of cool ideas that are introduced as background and never followed up on. That's not sloppiness, but intentional - to gve the impression that the character is part of a whole world, but not the whole deal in and of himself.

 

The Dying Earth series is kind of whimsical and baroque - the Book of the New Sun is kind of gloomy and romantic by comparison. I like 'em both.

 

cheers, Mark

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

The Dying Earth series is kind of whimsical and baroque - the Book of the New Sun is kind of gloomy and romantic by comparison.

 

Dying Earth = whimsical

New Sun = gloomy

 

How's that work?

[Markdoc]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

Dying Earth = whimsical

New Sun = gloomy

 

How's that work?

 

Well the earth is dying in both series, but in the first one the characters say things like: "Oh well, might as well finish the bottle - sun could go out any moment, after all!"

 

cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

And interestingly enough it turns up (under another name) in the Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. That sequence was so briliant that I use it as a guide for monsters of this kind.

 

The short version is that the monster in that sequence not only speaks with a human voice, but can speak with the voices of those it has eaten *and* it seems to have access to the victim's memories, so that it can pose as the next victim's loved one. It raises the question of whether the person who has been eaten is still alive. Seriously cool presentation (and plays an important role in the entire story cycle too)

 

cheers, Mark

 

I would never have connected the leucrotta with that passage in New Sun. Gene Wolfe is doing something so totally different here, from a simple "monster that mimics a human voice" trope. In fact, I associate it a lot more with his own Catholic background - the idea of the cannibal sacrament, of communing or uniting with Someone/Something by eating part of it, is one of the strongest threads holding the story together.

 

 

Susano, I have no idea if you'd like it, but I can say that I have read rather widely and I consider it absolutely first rate; at the same time, it IS hard to know what to compare it to. I find myself thinking "it's not like THIS, no and it's not like THAT...."

 

It's incredibly deep, and incredibly rich, and things you think over and done with in one book, turn up in a later one with completely different implications....

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Explaining a palindromedary might be easier....

[Lucius]

Hyborean Dancing Girls from the world of Conan

 

Yes' date=' but where are the Hybroean Dancing Girls?[/quote']

 

Here.

 

 

Dancing Girl

 

Characteristics

 

Value Char Points

8 STR -2

14 DEX 12

13 CON 6

8 BOD -4

10 INT 0

10 EGO 0

13 PRE 3

18 COM 4

4 PD 2

4 ED 1

3 SPD 6

5 REC 0

26 END 0

19 STUN 0

 

5†Run -2

 

Total-> 26

 

 

 

 

 

 

Skill Cost Roll

 

 

 

Acrobatics “I am skilled and graceful†3 12

Acting “I can be anything you want me to be†3 12

Disguise “I am clever with makeup and costumes†3 11

Contortionist “I can hold any position you choose†3 12

Conversation “You are so fascinating, please tell me more!†3 12

Seduction 3 12

KS: Carnal Knowledge (intellect) 3 11

PS: Dancer (agility) 3 12

PS: Singer (interaction) 3 12

PS: Concubine(interaction) 3 12

Stealth “I am light on my feet†3 12

Concealment 3 11

 

Total Points for Skills: 36

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unspent: 13 pts

 

Disads

 

Disadvantage Rolls Points

Distinctive Features: Beautiful, seductive. Concealable 10

Hunted by Hyborean Monsters from the World of Conan, Evil Wizards, etc. <=14 20

Social Limitation: Hyborean Dancing Girl 15

Watched by Master <=14 20

Psych Lim: (Varies with individual girl) 10

 

 

 

Our Hyborean Dancing Girls are built on 75 points plus 75 points of disadvantages, suitable for a standard heroic game. 13 points are left unspent for optional customization and/or skills not yet learned. Available for sale (150 pt follower for 30 pts) or lease (Summon 150 pt Dancing Girl 30 pts, (+1 advantage for slavishly devoted 60 pts,) delivery to civilized regions only (Hyborean kingdoms and some Shemitic city-states) (-1/2 limit “must inhabit localeâ€) allow 4 to 6 weeks for delivery (-5 limit extra time) Check out our special rates for matched sets and harems with Teamwork skill! (each 5 pts doubles the number for either Follower or Summon) Ask about our special insurance against having your dancing girls abducted by Cimmerian barbarians!

 

 

Nice work' date=' incidentally. [/size']

 

We like to think so. Thank you.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Only from Palindromedary Enterprises

[Markdoc]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

I would never have connected the leucrotta with that passage in New Sun. Gene Wolfe is doing something so totally different here' date=' from a simple "monster that mimics a human voice" trope.[/quote']

 

Indeed, but is not his ability to turn thngs on their metaphorical heads why we read him? Compare the Book of the Long Sun with earlier generation ship stories like "non-stop". When you start reading the book, it's not clear for a while that it *is* a generation ship story.

 

Same with the Leucrotta-thingy: I must say, "leucrotta" was the first thing that popped into my head when I read that scene, but you are right, it's very much more than a talking monster - especially since the concepts introduced there take on an entirely different cast when it comes to later parts of the book dealing with the autarch

 

In fact' date=' I associate it a lot more with his own Catholic background - the idea of the cannibal sacrament, of communing or uniting with Someone/Something by eating part of it, is one of the strongest threads holding the story together.[/quote']

 

Hmm. Interesting - I read that and many other parts of the story, including Severian's insistence on his infalible memory and the resurrection sequences (Dorcas, Typhon) with their discussion of (incorrect or inapplicable) memories as part of an extended discussion on identity and memory - what are we, if not our memories? And if our memories alter, then who are we really? For me, that was the theme that held the book together.

 

In that light, I (mentally) paired The Book of the New Sun with The Soldier of the Mists - one is the memoirs of a man who wrote nothing down because he has an eidetic memory, the other the memoirs of a man who wrote everything down because he has no memory at all.

 

And then in Peace, we have a man who built a house to literally hold his memories and who now is sometimes not sure if he is actually living his actions or remembering them...

 

You can see why english lit. prof.s love this guy.

 

cheers, Mark

[Susano]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

Mark,

Have you read any of China Miéville stuff? Such as Perdidio Street Station, The Scar, or Iron Council?

[Markdoc]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

Mark,

Have you read any of China Miéville stuff? Such as Perdidio Street Station, The Scar, or Iron Council?

 

No. Not because I don't want to - what I've heard sounds kind of cool - but simply because I have never stumbled across the books when I have been in a buying mood. I have two whole shelves of books at home I haven't read yet, so going out on the net to find more books seems a bit whacked.

 

So right now I'm reading "Montaillou, village occitan" by Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie. It's a detailed history of a village in southern France during the cathar period. Fascinating stuff because it's a history about peasants and small merchants (ie: day to day life) based on detailed original documents, but it's kind of chewy reading. Maybe I'll buy the english translation. And for lighter stuff, "The emperor of Dreams" - the collected stories of Clark Ashton Smith - another Fantasy Masterworks book.

 

cheers, Mark

[Susano]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

No. Not because I don't want to - what I've heard sounds kind of cool - but simply because I have never stumbled across the books when I have been in a buying mood. I have two whole shelves of books at home I haven't read yet' date=' so going out on the net to find more books seems a bit whacked.[/quote']

 

Ahhh... I see. Personally, I am re-reading my shelves of books to see if I want to keep them. Hence the pile of "things to sell," which now includes the Great Book of Amber, Fortress of the Pearl, The Chronicles of Prydain, my Stormwatch GNs, my Authority GNs, my Dragon Ball GNs, and the like.

 

Next, I plan to read Those Who Hunt The Night and Fevre Dream

[Markdoc]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

Ahhh... I see. Personally' date=' I am re-reading my shelves of books to see if I want to keep them. Hence the pile of "things to sell," which now includes the [i']Great Book of Amber, Fortress of the Pearl, The Chronicles of Prydain[/i], my Stormwatch GNs, my Authority GNs, my Dragon Ball GNs, and the like.

 

Next, I plan to read Those Who Hunt The Night and Fevre Dream

 

Fevre Dream is good!

 

I tossed the Great Book of Amber but got the first 5 Amber novels in one volume: I reread them a couple of weeks ago and you know, I had forgotten how good they were.

 

cheers, Mark

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Hyborean Dancing Girls from the world of Conan

 

Here.

 

 

Dancing Girl

 

Characteristics

 

Value Char Points

8 STR -2

14 DEX 12

13 CON 6

8 BOD -4

10 INT 0

10 EGO 0

13 PRE 3

18 COM 4

4 PD 2

4 ED 1

3 SPD 6

5 REC 0

26 END 0

19 STUN 0

 

5†Run -2

 

Total-> 26

 

 

 

 

 

 

Skill Cost Roll

 

 

 

Acrobatics “I am skilled and graceful†3 12

Acting “I can be anything you want me to be†3 12

Disguise “I am clever with makeup and costumes†3 11

Contortionist “I can hold any position you choose†3 12

Conversation “You are so fascinating, please tell me more!†3 12

Seduction 3 12

KS: Carnal Knowledge (intellect) 3 11

PS: Dancer (agility) 3 12

PS: Singer (interaction) 3 12

PS: Concubine(interaction) 3 12

Stealth “I am light on my feet†3 12

Concealment 3 11

 

Total Points for Skills: 36

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unspent: 13 pts

 

Disads

 

Disadvantage Rolls Points

Distinctive Features: Beautiful, seductive. Concealable 10

Hunted by Hyborean Monsters from the World of Conan, Evil Wizards, etc. <=14 20

Social Limitation: Hyborean Dancing Girl 15

Watched by Master <=14 20

Psych Lim: (Varies with individual girl) 10

 

 

 

Our Hyborean Dancing Girls are built on 75 points plus 75 points of disadvantages, suitable for a standard heroic game. 13 points are left unspent for optional customization and/or skills not yet learned. Available for sale (150 pt follower for 30 pts) or lease (Summon 150 pt Dancing Girl 30 pts, (+1 advantage for slavishly devoted 60 pts,) delivery to civilized regions only (Hyborean kingdoms and some Shemitic city-states) (-1/2 limit “must inhabit localeâ€) allow 4 to 6 weeks for delivery (-5 limit extra time) Check out our special rates for matched sets and harems with Teamwork skill! (each 5 pts doubles the number for either Follower or Summon) Ask about our special insurance against having your dancing girls abducted by Cimmerian barbarians!

 

 

 

 

We like to think so. Thank you.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Only from Palindromedary Enterprises

 

Good one, Lucius! But do you accept bulk rates?

[Susano]

Re: Hyborean Dancing Girls from the world of Conan

 

Here.

 

 

Dancing Girl

 

I'm really thinking I should add this to the website list....

[Lucius]

Hyborean Dancing Girls from the world of Conan

 

Good one' date=' Lucius! But do you accept bulk rates?[/quote']

 

You mean, beyond the fact that after the first, each additional is only 5 pts?

 

In any case, stock is depleted right now. Some new guy got crowned king of Aquilonia and everyone wanted to buy him a present. Then some Stygian wanted all our virgins.

 

I'm really thinking I should add this to the website list....

 

With the contact information: lucius_p_alexander@yahoo.com ?

 

If it's going up on such an honored website, I may want to go over it again first. I basically just copied most of it from the Fembot write-up.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Pondering possible publicity for Palindromedary Enterprises

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Hyborean Dancing Girls from the world of Conan

 

In any case, stock is depleted right now. Then some Stygian wanted all our virgins.

 

 

Well, you know what they say about Stygian virgins anyway: any girl older then 14 who can run faster than the demon her cousin summoned.

[Susano]

Re: Hyborean Dancing Girls from the world of Conan

 

If it's going up on such an honored website, I may want to go over it again first. I basically just copied most of it from the Fembot write-up.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Pondering possible publicity for Palindromedary Enterprises

 

Sure. The color text about rates and the like sold it for me. And it makes an amusing change to all gloom and doom of the rest of the character sheets.

[Lucius]

Dancing Girls and Monsters from the Id of China

 

Mark,

Have you read any of China Miéville stuff? Such as Perdidio Street Station, The Scar, or Iron Council?

 

I have read Perdido Street Station. Fascinating novel, and like The Book of the New Sun, it's hard to know how to describe it because it's hard to know what to compare it too. Except maybe an exceptionally lucid and consistent dream - or nightmare.

 

 

I was toying with taking Concealment off the Dancing Girl, but too many of them seem able to, for example, hide a dagger in a scanty costume somewhere. Some of the skills I'd like to buy up, but there are only so many points to go around. I'm also considering doing the Gorean Slave Girl write-up as well, but not sure I can do it on 75 + 75 pts.

 

Does anyone see anything I missed?

 

 

And Susano, would you like to see a list of options for spending that customizable 13 pts?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Enterprises

[Susano]

Re: Dancing Girls and Monsters from the Id of China

 

And Susano' date=' would you like to see a list of options for spending that customizable 13 pts?[/quote']

 

Sure!

[Vestnik]

Re: Hyborean Monsters from the world of Conan

 

I thought Perdido Street Station was brilliant (and it contains BTW a very funny D&D parody). The Scar I liked a lot too. IMO, in Iron Council, Mieville lets his politics get far, far too involved -- he's a Trotskyist, and the book is transparently a tribute to the Russian Revolution. ("Council" = "Soviet," for instance.) It also has a really lame deus ex machina either.

 

Boy, those books are full of ideas.