Growing Up Polytheistic

[Sketchpad]

Hola Gang ... been thinking about some fantasy games and something stuck in my brain. If a character grows up in a Polytheistic world ... what's his opinion on the gods? For example, if a fighter grew up in a town that has the God of War as a patron, what would his opinion be of say the Goddess of Nature? Does the town just teach things from the God of War's perspective? Or do they teach the whole myths and stories? I know I could probably go in any direction that I'd want to ... but I'm curious if anyone else has used a similar idea ...

[OddHat]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Well, the Hindus and Japanese Shinto-Buddhists I've known are arguably pollytheists (depending on where you draw the lines between pollytheism and animism, a pointless debate if ever there was one). If you want to go with a fairly historically/culturally accurate model, a true pollytheist would have grown up in an area where all the recognized gods (which came down to any god anyone had heard of) were treated with some fear and respect, with locally prominent patron gods getting the lion's share of the worship. If your little farming community had a patron in Demeter, she'd get most of your prayers, but you'd still appease Triton before a boat trip, and you'd have no trouble with a fisherman who worshipped Triton. You might think someone who followed a god you;d never heard of was odd, but then he'd already be such an alien to you (as a member of a distant culture) that it wouldn't make much more of a difference. A priest or "educated" theist would claim that it was a more familliar god under an alternate name.

 

You could do the semi-anachronistic "My G_d is the one true G_d, and you suck" bit if you'd like, but it isn't/wasn't that common in animist-pollytheistic societies.

[McCoy]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Anybody on the boards raised Hindu?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

In my spare-time-project world, one pantheon has a widespread following, but it is looked at differently in different areas.

 

One area views the gods as equals, with all priests dedicated to all their service. Temples are shared, and the decor is easily changed to celebrate holidays sacred to different gods. If a priest truly has a preference for one god over the others, it's not public knowledge.

 

Another area has temples dedicated to one particular god, and the priests serving that temple holds that god in higher reverence than all others. All gods are acknowledged as equals, but some are more widely worshipped in some towns than others. Not much different from standard fantasy fare.

 

Another area has elevated one of the gods to a supreme position, and the other gods are held to be subservient to him. In this area, all major temples are dedicated to the high god, and the other gods only get small chapels, and that only in port cities frequented by visitors from other lands.

 

And, of course, all of these areas see worshippers of other pantheons as heathens.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Well it depends on who you ask.

 

If you ask the clergy of the God of War. They might be more inclined to say, "The only god worth worshipping in the God of War. And here's why...."

 

If you ask someone in a town which has multiple temples, they might have more well-rounded stories, "Well, there is the time that the God of War and the Goddess of Nature were in this epic battle..."

 

Let's take a simple story.

 

The God of War wants to destroy a forest which the enemy is hiding. While the God of War is leveling the forest, he happens upon the Goddess of Nature, who looked hurted and asked the God of War to stop. An disagreement ensued and the flood came and wash the enemies out of the forest.

 

Now, imagine what details someone might argue about.

 

The God of War could be thoughtful or on a mindless killing rampage perhaps a drunken rampage.

The Goddess of Nature might have been seriously hurt or just faking to trick the God of War.

The disagreement might have been a well-reasoned debate or threats yelled at each other.

The Goddess of Nature could have caused the flood, perhaps with her bitter tears, maybe from throwing lightning at the God of War.

The God of War might have destroyed an acroduct and flooded them out.

 

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

[Curufea]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

I'd use a sporting metaphor.

 

You both like football, but you barrack for different teams.

[Jeghis]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

This will probably be more unhelpful than helpful, but the world works that way sometimes.

 

Hinduism is a complex religion and may not give you the kind of answers you want. The gods of the Hindu pantheon are inextricably linked in a way that the Greco-Roman gods aren't.

 

Reading Homer, Seneca, and Aristophanes might be as helpful as getting individual views about a particular religion. Alternatively, you might look at the literature or talk to people about Vodun/Voudon/Voodoo or Wicca.

 

But, you have a ready source for material in the United States in certain forms of Christianity.

 

Modern Christianity could be characterized as having between one and five deities, possibly more. The primary deity is the Father, who is usually identified with the Jewish deity. Some Christians may also identify Allah with the Father.

 

Jesus, the Son, serves a role as the Sacrifice and Intermediary. Like the Father, Jesus is a male deity. Judaism does not recognize Jesus as a deity, while at least some branches of Islam recognize him as a human prophet.

 

The third deity is sexless and is a pure spirit: the Holy Spirit. This deity serves a role as an indirect informant and inspiration to humans. I am not aware of the use of this deity in Judaism, but I believe that at least some forms of Islam have a similar deity.

 

Of the last two deities, Lucifer/Satan/The Devil plays the role of the source of all evil. Humans may worship him directly or serve him indirectly. Satan is usually characterized as male.

 

The last deity is the Virgin Mary, who is the only female deity in the pantheon and the mother of Jesus, another deity. Mary is most often found in certain Catholic Christian sects.

 

You could add any number of other saints, but I haven't kept up with my hagiology enough to know who's in and who's out in the 21st century.

 

Now, you do have some of the same problems you'd face in Hinduism, in that all of the deities trace their origins and existence to the Father. In theory, after the end of days, everything that's left just goes back to being the Father, unlike a harder polytheism, like the Norse, where the deities simply cease to exist after a certain point.

 

This view of polytheistic Christianity takes a variety of forms, but none admit Satan worship as being useful or good. One of my relatives takes the view that certain religions are Satan worship, though they do not make that claim for themselves. He also claims that either the Son or Holy Spirit gives him advice on a variety of topics, including career moves. Satan also gives advice, but he has to struggle to ignore it, usually with the help of one of the good three. He does not admit the Virgin Mary into his pantheon and views veneration of her as something bordering on satanic. The Harry Potter series is satanic.

 

I am perfectly aware that Christianity is normally characterized as a monotheistic religion, but actual practice seems to deviate from that theoretical form. As an external observer, it is easier to characterize it as polytheistic, while Judaism appears to be easier to represent as a monotheistic religion, at least in many of its forms.

 

Like I said, there's a lot of words here and too few facts.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that religious wars are not that pervasive a thing in world history. Most religions have adapted to the other pantheons, with the Romans being a prime example. Most conflict arose from land and resource disputes.

 

Good luck. You'll need it.

 

c/j

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Repped the above post.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Real world religions really have nothing that is the equivalent of D&D religions, where every person believes in all the gods but worships only one. All real-world polytheistic religions I know of don't prohibit you from paying homage multiple of their gods in the appropriate context. The god you ask for a plentiful harvest may not be the same god you ask for peaceful relations with your neighbor, or a financial turn of fortune.

[Curufea]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Plus - not all gods will be known in all parts of the world.

 

For example, Saxnot is part of the pantheon for the Saxons - a god of the sword. But not part of the pantheon for the Norse or the Germanic tribes. But Thor appears in all three (although with different regional names of course).

[Lucius]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Even among people who share the same pantheon, the specifics of the myth may differ - depending on what town you're from, what temple you go to, even on who exactly is telling the story.

 

Consider the myth of Persephone and Hades - one of the more vitally imortant of the Hellenic myths. No matter who tells the story, Persephone ends up eating some pomegranite seeds. But exactly how, and why? I've seen one source even contradict itself, stating that Hades "tricked" and "forced" Persephone into eating the seeds. Others have it that she ate them willingly and readily.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Pompous pedantic Pagan on a palindromedary

[Markdoc]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

There have been cases in history where polytheistic religions did the "my god is better than your god" thing. Egypt is a case in point, where local minor gods such as Sekhmet - originally a one-city cult - spread over the whole country, due to active efforts by the priesthood to grow their franchise. Osiris replaced Set as the God of Death - and the priests had to retroactively explain that Set was Osiris's son, although earlier they had been enemies and rivals (and Set was older anyway...) and then make up some wierd stories about Set's wife dressing up as Osiris's wife and getting pregnant by Osiris instead (this is before his penis was eaten by a fish) and so on.

 

So people probably believed in all of these, but may have favoured one or two "favourite" deities - or at least the priests did.

 

In late Roman times, people joined cults, which seems to have pretty much soaked up all their worship. Worshippers of Cybele, for example still believed in Jupiter Maximus - or at least sacrified to him on official holy days - but they spent the rest of the time with fellow cult members and according to complaints by more conventional Romans, spent their energy and cash on the cult too. I guess they figured Cybele could give them what they needed so they didn't need to expend effort elsewhere. The cult of Mithras likewise seems to have absorbed a lot of members time and energies. It wasn't just religion but also a network. In some legions, if you wanted to have a decent chance of promotion, you had to belong to the cult, because all the senior officers did. Kinda like the Rotarians, but with more bloodletting.

 

So it is possible to have "commited, evangelical polytheists" - the key is that religion (just like today) is not just about believing in a god or gods: it's also about social interaction, developing a community, social history and welfare networks, etc.

 

The Greeks, on the other hand, never seemed to have gone in for the cult thing so much - they had regional deities (Athena for Athens, for example) but that didn't stop the Boetians appealing to Athena, even when they were at war with Athens. So, in some cases, polytheistic societies were more "all gods". Take your pick, whatever suits your gaming style.

 

cheers, Mark

[Enforcer84]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Well, the Hindus and Japanese Shinto-Buddhists I've known are arguably pollytheists (depending on where you draw the lines between pollytheism and animism, a pointless debate if ever there was one). If you want to go with a fairly historically/culturally accurate model, a true pollytheist would have grown up in an area where all the recognized gods (which came down to any god anyone had heard of) were treated with some fear and respect, with locally prominent patron gods getting the lion's share of the worship. If your little farming community had a patron in Demeter, she'd get most of your prayers, but you'd still appease Triton before a boat trip, and you'd have no trouble with a fisherman who worshipped Triton. You might think someone who followed a god you;d never heard of was odd, but then he'd already be such an alien to you (as a member of a distant culture) that it wouldn't make much more of a difference. A priest or "educated" theist would claim that it was a more familliar god under an alternate name.

 

You could do the semi-anachronistic "My G_d is the one true G_d, and you suck" bit if you'd like, but it isn't/wasn't that common in animist-pollytheistic societies.

My God (Can Beat Up Your God)

by Dennis DeYoung

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

 

Here come the believers, the true, true believers

Straight down from the mountain. They’ve seen god

They claim the deceivers and evil blasphemers

Will burn in the fires of their facades*

 

They say all the people who dare worship false religions

And all the prophets who bear witness there unto

Will find perdition from the curse of all of their sins

as they shout out these seven words they know are true

 

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

 

They’ve seen the exalters defiling their altars

While worshipping idols so profane

This moral erosion is why they’ve been chosen

To punish the sinners who’ve gone insane

 

For it is written in their books of ancient wisdom

That they alone are righteous in their holy ways

And all others will be banished from the kingdom

For it is they who truly earned the right to say

 

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

 

My god can beat up your god

My god, second to none

my god, he is the true god

I say my god, he’s number one

 

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

 

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

[Curufea]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

They're no match for the Invisible Pink Unicorn

[OddHat]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

My God (Can Beat Up Your God)

by Dennis DeYoung

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

 

Here come the believers, the true, true believers

Straight down from the mountain. They’ve seen god

They claim the deceivers and evil blasphemers

Will burn in the fires of their facades*

 

They say all the people who dare worship false religions

And all the prophets who bear witness there unto

Will find perdition from the curse of all of their sins

as they shout out these seven words they know are true

 

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

 

They’ve seen the exalters defiling their altars

While worshipping idols so profane

This moral erosion is why they’ve been chosen

To punish the sinners who’ve gone insane

 

For it is written in their books of ancient wisdom

That they alone are righteous in their holy ways

And all others will be banished from the kingdom

For it is they who truly earned the right to say

 

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

 

My god can beat up your god

My god, second to none

my god, he is the true god

I say my god, he’s number one

 

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

 

My god can beat up your god

My god has told me so

my god, he is the true god

I say watch out, He’ll lay yours low

 

 

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours' date=' try again later.[/i']

It's a really really cool song too.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

As weird as this sounds, look at gods as if it were a politic party.

 

There are a lot of gods out there. Some people think of them all as silly and pointless because it doesn't matter in the long term. Some people recognize that all gods have their own valid point and position but are the one for them. Others find the followers of all gods but theres idiots for not realizing that there choice is the best.

[Lucius]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

They're no match for the Invisible Pink Unicorn

 

Do I know you from ISCA??

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And the invisible pink palindromedary

[Curufea]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Do I know you from ISCA??

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And the invisible pink palindromedary

 

I've only recently heard of the IPU (before that I was a Kisser of Hank's ***, and before that a Devout Jedi), and have problems following her doctrine (I don't like pineapple on pizza). I have not yet attended any ISCA board/forum.

[Mister E]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

I actually was raised somewhat Hindu... bajans on Thursdays... Sunday-school on, well, Sundays. From my POV, polytheism is just that: belief that there are lots of gods out their. One of the reasons that Hindus put their hands together when they great you, is because basically they are acknowledging you as a visiting divinity. Cool, huh?

 

In a D&D-typical world, I would play religious beliefs out the way the Greeks did it. The world is a big wonderful mysterious place, full of marvels, nightmares, and ecstasies too vast and complicated to fathom for a mere mortal. Everything to some extent is composed of numina deep down. That is to say gods, spirits, nymphs, and whathaveyou exist all around. People know this for its simple truth, because they feel it.

 

Orthodoxy, (the belief that what you believe is right, and everyone else is wrong) just wasn't very realistic for a culture. The Sun was a powerful awe inspiring force to be reconded with, to be sure, but its existense didn't necessarily supercede that of Love... Wine... or Motherhood.

 

 

~ Mister E

[tkdguy]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Some clarifications on the Trinity and Mary

 

From New Advent's Catholic Encyclopedia:

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

 

And a few articles from Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trinity

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessed_Virgin_Mary

 

Edit: One enty about the devil:

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm

[Curufea]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Nice - I especially like the Wikipedia entry on the Holy Trinity, well laid out and explained.

 

So, it is something to bear in mind for fantasy religions - what the official dogma is (in various cultures and locations) and what the believers practice, or what sub-heresies might arise (also in various cultures and locations).

[tkdguy]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

Also, what nonbelievers think of the religion, since Christianity is not polytheistic.

[Curufea]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

True. I have noticed that there are very few non-believers in fantasy settings. Is it because the gods interfere actively?

[tkdguy]

Re: Growing Up Polytheistic

 

In the Forgotten Realms setting, the souls of people who didn't pledge allegiance to any god during their lifetimes a stuck to a wall for all eternity, or at least until the corrosive nature of said wall destroys their souls.

 

Not a good idea to be an atheist there!