Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

[Publius]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, because the thread title was Registration in the 5th edition specifically, I thought it was taken for granted that the law was (as Champions Universe puts it) "toothless". There are two reasons given in that book: (1) it would be unpopular to go after popular heroes and (2) American interests would be weakened by aggressive enforcement. Often registration is the price of getting government Sanction. (CU, 35). Sounds like Option 'B' in the CU unless I am misreading your options Oddhat.

[OddHat]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

Not to beat a dead horse or anything' date=' because the thread title was Registration in the 5th edition specifically, I thought it was taken for granted that the law was (as Champions Universe puts it) "toothless". There are two reasons given in that book: (1) it would be unpopular to go after popular heroes and (2) American interests would be weakened by aggressive enforcement. Often registration is the price of getting government Sanction. (CU, 35). Sounds like Option 'B' in the CU unless I am misreading your options Oddhat.[/quote']

 

It's definitely closer to Option 'B' than 'A'. I think the essential problem I have with the CU brand is that the wording (iirc) calls for Superhumans to register rather than calling for Superhuman Crime Fighters to register, an important difference in principle even if in practice it's less of an issue. Add to that the fact that the CU has most of the Marvel Mutant-as-Minority thing going as well as the IHA and standard issue government conspiracies and it starts to carry a serious stink.

[Publius]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

It's definitely closer to Option 'B' than 'A'. I think the essential problem I have with the CU brand is that the wording (iirc) calls for Superhumans to register rather than calling for Superhuman Crime Fighters to register' date=' an important difference in principle even if in practice it's less of an issue. Add to that the fact that the CU has most of the Marvel Mutant-as-Minority thing going as well as the IHA and standard issue government conspiracies and it starts to carry a serious stink.[/quote']Actually given the fact that the popularity of the registration act would be in its ability to restrain superhumans in general, I do not see the problem with a general registration. As written the government for example also requires supervillains to register. If it were only crimefighters, villains would not have to register but heroes would (legally speaking, I know that this sounds ignorant, but look at the courts now and the loopholes that are sometimes used).

 

As written for general registration I think it would make an excellent accompanying charge. Sort of "Yeah, we couldn't get him on the assault rap, but we managed to snag him for a violation of the Registration Act." (said no doubt with a smirk btw) It would also work for non-capes you want to blackmail into performing for you: "Mrs. Johnson, we know about your Psychometry, and the fact that you haven't registered your abilities with the proper authorities. Of course we might be willing to overlook this infraction if you say took hold of this piece of evidence for us..."

 

The Superhuman as minority thing is pretty standard really, I cannot see it changing because of the population numbers. The IHS and conspiracies just provide plot points, like registration they can be as much or as little as the GM likes and still fit well into the CU. I'm not saying that anyone has to like any or all of them, but as written I think they make useful devices that can be wratcheted up or down as desired for an individual campaign and still be recognizably the CU.

[McCoy]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

In my world, it came about from the Reagan assassination attempt. The bullet that actually hit the president had bounced of a metahuman attempting to subdue Hinkley.

 

If a metahuman is arrested, a "Failure to register" charge can be added to any other charge, can be a pretext for denying bail, and, if convicted, can add a mandatory year to their sentence.

 

A blind eye is turned toward law-abiding metas who have not registered.

 

The only ones actually required to register are those working directly for the government, or seaking certain security clearances.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

Cheers

 

QM

[OddHat]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

Actually given the fact that the popularity of the registration act would be in its ability to restrain superhumans in general' date=' I do not see the problem with a general registration.[/quote']

 

I partially disagree, but then my version of Superhuman Registration is based on the conscription model rather than a race law model. The purpose of that set of laws (not just a single act) was originally to guarantee that the government could call upon Supers in war time and (later) to counter Super Criminals at home. After the post-Vietnam gutting of those laws, the appeal was in the promise of a better trained, all volunteer supply of Supers for use at home and abroad.

 

It would also work for non-capes you want to blackmail into performing for you: "Mrs. Johnson, we know about your Psychometry, and the fact that you haven't registered your abilities with the proper authorities. Of course we might be willing to overlook this infraction if you say took hold of this piece of evidence for us..."

 

This is how I see the process working pre-Vietnam in my own campaign. Post 1973, Mrs. Johnson would be under no legal obligation to register, and would have access to the support needed to at least put up a legal fight if pressured.

 

The Superhuman as minority thing is pretty standard really, I cannot see it changing because of the population numbers.

 

It did not change in my campaign because of population numbers. It never worked as an analogy in the first place, Marvel Standard* or not, because minorities do not face oppression merely because they are "different"; they face oppression because they are vulnerable. Stretching that model to cover Supers can be done, but mainly relies on keeping Supers both numerous and on the average low powered. An angry mob can beat up Mrs. Johnson the psychomotrist, assuming she doesn't have the support of any even moderately powerful fellow Supers. That mob will break and run if Mrs. Johnson can bounce bullets, throw trucks and kill people with her eyes.

 

The IHS and conspiracies just provide plot points, like registration they can be as much or as little as the GM likes and still fit well into the CU. I'm not saying that anyone has to like any or all of them, but as written I think they make useful devices that can be wratcheted up or down as desired for an individual campaign and still be recognizably the CU.

 

I don't personally like or use those story elements, but tastes be tastes, and I'm not suggesting that those who like that model or those story elements are somehow "wrong".

 

 

 

*It never showed up in the Golden Age AFAIK, and it was never a big part of DC until the 1980s. However, it was arguably right there in Gladiator in 1930, so I can't say it's a recent addition.

[Publius]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

Ah, I think I see. You feel that the Registration Act is akin to race-based prejudice, like the Japanese Internment or Black Codes as was the Marvel Model, an undisguised parallel to race issues. I would agree with you more-or-less if it were but I do not see the CU version of registration in that way at all (I of course could be entirely wrong here).

 

I see this sort of law totally differently, coming as a prophylactic for some folks who are dangerous* because of their differences not simply because they are different. Akin to "hands as lethal weapons" laws (which I know is a separate issue). First thing to remember here is that we are talking only about the CU (that is the title of the thread) using the printed material from Champions Universe. Of course anyone can use whatever rationale that would like for their own versions of registration, again just the printed one here.

 

On Page 35 of Champions Universe, the text states that the American response to superhumans was relatively "relaxed" until security issues started to come to the fore in the Cold War era. This is of course going on at the same time as the civil rights struggle, but the stated purpose of this effort is to catalogue superhumans for security purposes: the first DoD Superhuman Survey is in the early 70s and designates the threat level of a superhuman not in terms of their raw power but their potential threat to national security (Page 39).

 

The American Superhuman and Paranormal Registration Act (ASPRA) is not passed however until after Dr. Destroyer uses several superhumans as pawns in a bid to take over the United States. Dr. Destroyer had apparently manipulated these individuals behind the scenes, prodding them in such as way that their actions served his greater goals (this is supposition). The public response to this particular event provided the stimulus to the ASPRA. There was no hatred of the "muties" involved, but a specific response to a specific event that sowed fear into the hearts of the public. I've heard those laws sometimes pass without much debate. From there, sprinkle in what I have said previously about the feasibility of the act being inconsequential to the popularity of its passage and thus the carrot for our Pavolovian class of politicos. The fact that the text remarks that it is "toothless" allows it to be used or disused as preferred by individual GMs. All-in-all I think ASPRA as written is an elegant solution to both bowing to the trope and making it as inoffensive as possible both in terms of its rationale and its effect.

 

Like you, I feel there is nothing inherently wrong about using either the Marvel Model of race intolerant laws or laws such as I have outlined above. I just think of ASPRA (i.e. specifically the CU version) to be the latter rather than the former.

 

 

*True, it would be hard to say that the Psychometric's abilities are "dangerous", but because of the infinite variety of abilities in a superpowered world, the fact that she has extraordinary powers alone would be sufficient (that way you would not have to create all sorts of distinctions in the law that would be problematic in execution). In fact, the registration itself would be more a prophylactic for her in the legal sense as her abilities would be designated non-lethal, whereas the guy that spouts spikes would be designated as lethal. Mrs. Johnson would never have to worry about being labeled as "dangerous" if she registers...

[CBikle]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

One thing about the whole "Supers Registration" type plot element is that, if the GM has it go into effect, odds are that it'll complicate the game if some of the PCs register and some don't.

 

For awhile, the GM might find himself running two separate games.

[Vorsch]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

I feel aregistration act wkile sensible on paper would not work for a game premise, if by the very fact of being a Hero makes you a criminal (hero being defined as a super who battles Vilains whom conventional forces cant contain) then its not realy a champions game, more of a x-man game.

 

Also depend on the relative power level of heroes and vilains compared to conventional forces, can the law be enforced? if not the first time gravitar shows up she can pretty much do as she likes, with the hero just staying at home going "gee i dont want to break the law, let her destroy the whitehouse."

 

No ones going to arrest superman or god forbid martian manhunter, they simply cant be fought by any weapons in the human arsenal.

[zornwil]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

It did not change in my campaign because of population numbers. It never worked as an analogy in the first place' date=' Marvel Standard* or not, because minorities do not face oppression merely because they are "different"; they face oppression because they are vulnerable. Stretching that model to cover Supers can be done, but mainly relies on keeping Supers both numerous and on the average low powered. An angry mob can beat up Mrs. Johnson the psychomotrist, assuming she doesn't have the support of any even moderately powerful fellow Supers. That mob will break and run if Mrs. Johnson can bounce bullets, throw trucks and kill people with her eyes. (snipped)[/quote']

 

In my world it changed a lot due to population. Up until the mass mutating accident in NYC, the number and measurement of existing mutants was somewhat achievable. The law was already broken from the perspective of being already somewhat widely disobeyed and difficult to enforce, but that event pretty much blew away the practicality of the law. Plus the numbers and sudden change called into focus and question the issue of depriving people of civil rights based solely on being a "potential" walking bomb. All that coupled with the multi-year (in real life) game direction per the PCs and as part of what had been a mounting mutant-human relationship flash point has basically been in end result a closing of this chapter, the basic acknowledgement that the genie is out of the bottle, in one respect, and that society ultimately will accept mutants, even if uncomfortably as real-world American society accepts African-Americans. Note if there are debates/issues with a comparison to real world, probably should be taken to NGD rather than debated here.

[zornwil]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

One thing about the whole "Supers Registration" type plot element is that, if the GM has it go into effect, odds are that it'll complicate the game if some of the PCs register and some don't.

 

For awhile, the GM might find himself running two separate games.

We found it rather workable, but it resulted in one of the PCs being registered while others skirted it for a time until they were de facto registered, anyway. However the PC group ultimately was pressed into government service, it should be noted, as well, so that was the primary influence.

[zornwil]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

Ah, I think I see. You feel that the Registration Act is akin to race-based prejudice, like the Japanese Internment or Black Codes as was the Marvel Model, an undisguised parallel to race issues. I would agree with you more-or-less if it were but I do not see the CU version of registration in that way at all (I of course could be entirely wrong here).

 

I see this sort of law totally differently, coming as a prophylactic for some folks who are dangerous* because of their differences not simply because they are different. Akin to "hands as lethal weapons" laws (which I know is a separate issue). First thing to remember here is that we are talking only about the CU (that is the title of the thread) using the printed material from Champions Universe. Of course anyone can use whatever rationale that would like for their own versions of registration, again just the printed one here.

 

On Page 35 of Champions Universe, the text states that the American response to superhumans was relatively "relaxed" until security issues started to come to the fore in the Cold War era. This is of course going on at the same time as the civil rights struggle, but the stated purpose of this effort is to catalogue superhumans for security purposes: the first DoD Superhuman Survey is in the early 70s and designates the threat level of a superhuman not in terms of their raw power but their potential threat to national security (Page 39).

 

The American Superhuman and Paranormal Registration Act (ASPRA) is not passed however until after Dr. Destroyer uses several superhumans as pawns in a bid to take over the United States. Dr. Destroyer had apparently manipulated these individuals behind the scenes, prodding them in such as way that their actions served his greater goals (this is supposition). The public response to this particular event provided the stimulus to the ASPRA. There was no hatred of the "muties" involved, but a specific response to a specific event that sowed fear into the hearts of the public. I've heard those laws sometimes pass without much debate. From there, sprinkle in what I have said previously about the feasibility of the act being inconsequential to the popularity of its passage and thus the carrot for our Pavolovian class of politicos. The fact that the text remarks that it is "toothless" allows it to be used or disused as preferred by individual GMs. All-in-all I think ASPRA as written is an elegant solution to both bowing to the trope and making it as inoffensive as possible both in terms of its rationale and its effect.

 

Like you, I feel there is nothing inherently wrong about using either the Marvel Model of race intolerant laws or laws such as I have outlined above. I just think of ASPRA (i.e. specifically the CU version) to be the latter rather than the former.

 

 

*True, it would be hard to say that the Psychometric's abilities are "dangerous", but because of the infinite variety of abilities in a superpowered world, the fact that she has extraordinary powers alone would be sufficient (that way you would not have to create all sorts of distinctions in the law that would be problematic in execution). In fact, the registration itself would be more a prophylactic for her in the legal sense as her abilities would be designated non-lethal, whereas the guy that spouts spikes would be designated as lethal. Mrs. Johnson would never have to worry about being labeled as "dangerous" if she registers...

It was really two issues conflated in my game, the racial and the security. I don't think they can be unentwined, either, as both are real issues that are truly linked. Not to suggest any one outcome or way of approaching it, or even stating that one can't run a world view successfully with only one aspect being under consideration.

[David Johnston]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

I feel aregistration act wkile sensible on paper would not work for a game premise' date=' if by the very fact of being a Hero makes you a criminal (hero being defined as a super who battles Vilains whom conventional forces cant contain) .[/quote']

 

Why the apparent assumption that one cannot battle villains without keeping one's identity secret from the government?

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

I don't use it. I have never used it. It annoyed me in those X-men cartoons.

 

I try to keep an open mind when it comes to differences of opinion, as other perspectives will find other kinds of good, etc.

 

But for as long as I can remember, I have found the entire concept just stupid.

 

Yes, I know. That's not my usual open-minded let's explore this idea further self, but it's how I feel.

 

I found it doubly stupid to have been made cannon. It is at best a plot point for a 'let's explore this idea' type campaign. I do not and have never enjoyed any rules book or supplemental material mandating plots for my campaign. And I found it triply irritating from something billing itself as the ultimate resource to do things your way.

 

I put it down to a flash of Marvel envy or something during final edit, then calm myself by pretending it was all just a dream.....

 

 

[David Johnston]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

 

I found it doubly stupid to have been made cannon. It is at best a plot point for a 'let's explore this idea' type campaign. I do not and have never enjoyed any rules book or supplemental material mandating plots for my campaign. And I found it triply irritating from something billing itself as the ultimate resource to do things your way.

 

 

Is that what Champions Universe billed itself as? I don't see how any specific game universe can. Now, personally I found it a pointless element just because it's a token gesture. So I suppose it is there as one of those things that you can totally ignore or rewrite into a big deal. But I think it's a waste of space even if it's just one line.

[Publius]

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

 

I found it doubly stupid to have been made cannon. It is at best a plot point for a 'let's explore this idea' type campaign. I do not and have never enjoyed any rules book or supplemental material mandating plots for my campaign. And I found it triply irritating from something billing itself as the ultimate resource to do things your way.

 

I put it down to a flash of Marvel envy or something during final edit, then calm myself by pretending it was all just a dream.....

First, Re-read Page 5 Champion's Universe where is says something to the effect of 'if you don't like the relation between supers and government just tone that aspect down or throw it out.' All the vitriol in the thread overall seems excessive for something the text points out is optional and even if taken 'as is' is remarked on as being "toothless". Some folks, like myself, who would want to make this an aspect of the game ignore the "toothless" part and beef it up rather than strip it away. Heck, all you have to do to remove it is start one of your sessions off with a bunch of superhumans at a party celebrating "the end of that stupid law" and voila! it is done. No More ASPRA in your CU games.

 

Second, take a look at the last post I did on the subject, clearly marking how it is different from the Marvel version in both tone and function. The Marvel version is race-based (subspecies based?) the CU version is more like the USA PATRIOT Act than anything: specific incident creates (fearful) response. Dumb laws get passed all the time because politics is run by popularity contests rather than people in our society taking responsibility as citizens. Look at Copyright extensions deigned specifically to keep Mickey Mouse "safe" for Disney, Prohibition, the Eugenics Laws of the late 19th and early 20th century, Laws in seven states which outlaw heterosexual couples from co-habitating without benefit of marriage (ironically homosexual couples are protected by Lawrence v. Texas). That list is far far longer than the legs and arms of a basketball team.

 

BTW, are we still talking about Registration in the CU Universe in this thread? Most of these posts are about Marvel's version. If you don't want to use the Marvel version that is great, I thought we were discussing the 5th edition CU which is totally different.