Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

[Wilfred_Death]

Just the last Session the PCs and their 'Troops' ran into an enemy 'Elite Lancer' ( Hussar types ) squad. ( The PCs party had not been seen yet )

The 2 PCs set their men in some undergrowth, and rode forward to 'meet' the Lancers, they then taunted them into charging. The PCs 'rode for their lives' luring the Lancers towards their waiting ambush.

 

Aside: It weren't a good ambush plan, they'd left orders to not fire til 6" and such like. By which spot 2 of the Lancers 'Saw' the ambush and skewered a couple of NPC troopers. Fortunately when the troop did fire they got enough 'kills' that the PCs who were turning their horses after passing the ambush spot did not also get skewered. One saving herself by adroitly falling off her horse

 

The Scene worked well I thought, - I was trying to push the drama by making the PCs make Riding Skill each phase to stay ahead of the Lancers. There was exchange of banter, and one PC got a 'gift' of a new dagger, which he promptly gave back.....

 

Only thing, I hadn't thought that the new Rules say:

Non Combat Movement 0 OCV 1/2 DCV

 

So how does this work in your games for cavalry charges ?

Do they charge 'Flat out' but are then Incompetent ?

In the 4th Edition 'NCV' moves were 1/2 OCV So these 'Lancers' would still have had a reasonable chance to hit, and thus should be 'Feared'

At 0 OCV they can be just laughed off.

 

I'm having ( as you can tell ) a little trouble 'grasping' the whole mounted combat thing.

If the Villains were in 'cars' going flat out in a straight line, leaning out the window to shoot, I'd think " 'Easy' Full OCV maybe -1 or -2 for any bumping around..................."

 

So If an NPC is Mounted and Charging with a Lance, or even firing off a horse-bow, How do you people rate their OCV, and DCV ?

 

I mean in a Supers Game where Characters might be moving at 100", I can live with the 0 OCV thingy. However in Fantasy Hero it doesn't seem right for these much lower speeds.

 

Also I wasn't sure how to Work out the OCV for a Flat out foot charge made by Spearmen......( Using Spears of course ), 0 OCV seems too low.

 

If Charging Attackers must restrict themselves to 1/2 moves, and or 'Regular' Movement, won't everyone else just go to NCM and back away...........

 

Help ?

[Curufea]

Re: Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

 

I wouldn't allow NCM for mounts inside a combat scene/encounter.

As part of a rout, maybe - with abstract rules for the pursuing unit to kill a certain percentage.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

 

Now, as far as I understand the Mounted comabt rules, you have several options...

 

Mounts are considered self aware vechiles... not quite fully intelligent, but not requiring the concentration that a "Driver" would require. Thus the movement of the animal on its phases doesn't take up the actions of the rider, and the mount can go NCM if the rider makes his roll.

 

Where it gets tricky is the attack... If I read the rules right, the rider can attack at his normal OCV, -2 for controlling his mount. Where it gets a bit confusing is with move bys and move throughs... If I read right, you are restricted by the mounts NCM modifers to OCV if you are using a velocity based attack. This doesn't sound totally right to me, but I could see it being in place for balance issues. In any case, an opposed cavalry charge at NCM would be suicide, as long as your opponents were willig to attack the horses.

From what I know of cavalry tactics, most "full charges" wouldn't be NCM anyway... it'd be full moves from the mounts, thus avoiding some of the lethality of anti cav tatics. breaking to a NCM< full move sounds to me like a good way to represent a breakdown of discipline... either a full rout, or those giving chase lgiving their mounts their heads and letting them go full out...

 

In any case, I'd say Elite troopers should probably buy Passing Strike maneuvers to use on horseback,

[ThothAmon]

Re: Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

 

I allow variants on Move By and Move Thru calculated using the velocity of the animal, the STR of the rider, and OCV / DCV adjusted according to the competency of the Riding skill roll.

 

In the case of a lance charge the rider had better score some knockdown or he's rolling to avoid the animal falling at the end of the charge.

[Outsider]

Re: Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

 

If the rider fails to score any knockdown, it'd seem a lot more likely that he'd lose his hold on his weapon, become dismounted, or break his weapon, rather than have his mount fall.

[Markdoc]

Re: Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

 

In my game, the moving is regarded as being done by the mount, so even at NCM, that would not prevent the rider from using his own (full) OCV. He does, of course take movement penalties to his OCV, however.

 

OTOH, most mounted charges are at full move (FM) not NCM. The simple reason is that your mount becomes largely uncontrollable.

 

So a rider moving at half move or less takes no OCV or riding penalties. A rider moving at FM would take -1 to -5 depending on how rough the terrain was. I require riding rolls to make the horse (or giant riding bird or whatever) do what you want. Things like charging into a wall of men or oncoming mounts definately requires a roll, and that's penalised by the same amount.

 

So for example, light skirmishing cavalry might ride up at FM, shoot and then try to go NCM to get away. First, remember you can't instantly accelerate and decelerate. Even though running has no turn mode, you still need to decelerate, stop, then reverse back up to speed. Secondly you can't instantly go NCM - you need to get turned around and pointed in the right direction and do a phase moving at FM. That provides a window of vulnerability during which your opponent is moving towards you - if they accelrate to NCM first they might catch you. Of course, unless they are really good horsemen, they'll be an ineffective rabble when they hit.

 

This tends to encourage historical tactics - timing is crucial. Even if they don't go NCM, if your opponent outguesses you and holds an action so that they are accelerating towards you when you are decelerating prior to reversing, they might (depending on range) it you before you can get away. and since they'll be coming from behind you, expect heavy casualties.

 

Other mounted combat house rules:

 

Mounted vs foot get a high shot hit location for free. Foot get a low shot hit location unless they take -2 OCV to "aim high".

 

Mounted charges use the STR and velocity of the mount to do damage, but the weapon and OCV of the rider, unless it's a trample attack, in which case mount OCV is used.

 

Trample attacks are move throughs - the mount takes the damage. If it's stopped the rider will have to make a riding roll at -5 to stay on. Other mounted charges are movebys - the weapon takes the damage. Again the rider has to make a roll if the damage on the weapon is enough to do knockdown on him (pretty rare, since the damage taken on the weapon is only 1/3 of total - but it can happen) - he either drops it or falls out of the saddle.

 

That's it. Pretty simple and gives a consistent and "commonsense" outcome.

 

cheers, Mark

[prestidigitator]

Re: Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

 

First off all mounted combat is supposed to impose a -2 OCV to the rider. I use this rule except for lances, since they are meant to be used while mounted and cannot be used otherwise anyway. If you really wanted to be a stickler for rules you could say I give lances a built-in +2 PSLs for being used while mounted.

 

Charges are usually Move Throughs executed simultaneously by the rider and the mount. If this requires more than a Half Move, a Riding roll will be required. If they attack the same target, I let them coordinate their attack in this specific case with a Riding roll rather than a Teamwork roll (I don't require multiple Riding rolls for the charge, though--if one was necessary for a Full Move, I use the result of the one roll for both things). This is particularly applicable if the rider is using a lance (nevermind that the lance will technically hit before the mount does, or whatever). For swords and such it may be more appropriate for the rider to execute a Move By or normal Strike while the mount does its Move Through, and they will more likely be to different targets.

 

For OCV and DCV penalties, the rider gets any penalties due to his/her own maneuver (plus often the -2 OCV due to being mounted), plus any penalties the mount suffers from its maneuver. There is a special case: if both the mount is performing a Move Through or Move By, and the rider is performing a Move Through or Move By, the penalties aren't stacked; the rider simply takes the worst of each modifier. It seems to work decently.

[Alibear]

Re: Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

 

I would leave -2 ocv in place but the mounted warrior talent would allow you to circumvent that.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

 

Historically, cavalry charges weren't done at a full gallop, iirc. A standard combat move should be good enough.

[Bismark]

Re: Cavalry Charge , House Rules ?

 

Everything depends on the tye of cavalry charge involved; examples below

 

(1) 'Trotters' - Classical/Roman period cataphracts, Byzantine kataphraktoi (previously known as klibanophoroi), mediaeval German mercenary sergeants/clerical ministeriales:

 

These guys are not the world's best lancers - the first example using their lances as long spears for stabbing, or 2-handed in a style like bayonet fighting, the others being much better with mace/axe/sword than lance. Charge at the trot in very close formation (knee-to-knee).

 

(2) The 'psycho' approach - Sarmatian/Alan lancers. Late Roman period Germanic cavalry (Goths, Gepids, Suevi), French, Polish and Serbian knights:

 

These guys, whatever they are armed with, thunder forward as fast as they can go with not much attention given to maintaining formation; they either win or lose dramatically. This is a genuine maximum speed 'Ug! Kill!' charge

 

(3) The 'semi-skirmish' approach - most Classical and Roman cavalry, Gauls, Germans before they learned the full-on charge from their neighbours the Sarmatians, most Byzantine cavalry, Arab cavalry etc.:

 

Charge at a fairly controlled speed as formation and the ability to rapidly withdraw are important. Can come badly unstuck when taking on types (2) or (4).

 

(4) The archetypal knight:

 

These are somewhere between types (1) and (2) - they usually commit to the charge much more than type (3), at a speed that allows then to keep some small semblance of order while not wearing out their mounts all in one go. As equipment gets heavier momentum rather than speed is the factor here.

 

 

Working out OCV penalties should be easier when you know what category your cavalry fit into. Bear in mind that some of the 'psychos' had been on horseback since they were small children and would therefore have (in game terms) lots of Riding skill and mucho skill levels to offset the charge penalties (in the case of the Sarmatians, they would need them as they have a full-tilt charge technique, a low saddle [which is usually just leather bags filled with straw] with no front/rear arcons, and no stirrups).

 

Also note that for the lance charge, the sophistication of the saddle, the height of the arcons and the stance of the rider have far more effect on the effectiveness of the momentum transfer from lance to target than do the stirrups (easily demonstrable with good old Newtonian mechanics); stirrups do, however, make life a lot easier when it comes to striking downwards with swords/axes etc. as they improve ride stability and allow standing up in the stirrups to increase leverage.