Weird power build

[Dust Raven]

Re: Weird power build

 

Of course, with Mind Link, if you go by the book, you can only send a message to people you know unless they are in LOS, but for the purpose of this power, I'd ignore that bit and allow it for everybody in all cases, since it reveals nothing about the target, including whether or not they read the message or if the message was read by anyone else.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Weird power build

 

I like the summon idea. You summon an arrow which is an automaton with some flight and some megascale teleport and some mind scan. It has one program: "Find the specified target and land at his/her/its feet." Then you tie the note to it and fire it. You never see it again and have no idea where it goes, but somewhere, an arrow with a note on it falls to the ground at someone's feet.

 

The arrow, its only task completed, "dies" and is forevermore indistinguishable from a normal arrow. The intended recipient is free to react however he/she/it chooses.

 

It's clean and doesn't involve any weird mechanics.

 

Zeropoint

[MitchellS]

Re: Weird power build

 

Why didn't I see this before? It's a summon! The arrow itself has the tracking/ mind scan ability' date=' not the archer...there you go! I imagine it would be pretty cheap, too.[/quote']

That's an interesting choice. The summoned arrow has detect [to find the target], mega-scale flight [to get there fast], desolid [optional to go into rooms] and images [to present the message]. Something like:

 

Message Arrow: Summon 150 pt arrow, OAF [arrow]: -1. Total cost: 15 pts.

 

Of course you need to over-look the mega-scale flight as being not accurate within the size of the mega-scale distance, but that is a stupid rule anyway.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Weird power build

 

Give the arrow EDM and the movement is taken care of. I wouldn't even give it images, but instead a further limit that all the arrow can do is pass on a message.

 

But I don't know how to sensibly make the summon target someone else each time.

 

And while I think this is a neat build, in terms of utility, I think I'd go with a very specific Mind Scan. Or possibly even some kind of very limited Clairsentience, UBO only, etc., treating the arrow as nothing more than the special effect (assume it's irreparably broken when it hits, or gets stuck in a tree, or magically vanishes--- oooh! It magically returns to the sender when the message is removed. After all, he may want to use it again.

 

Yeah. That works. I think I might persue this more when I get back into town.

[MitchellS]

Re: Weird power build

 

Give the arrow EDM and the movement is taken care of. I wouldn't even give it images' date=' but instead a further limit that all the arrow can do is pass on a message.[/quote']

EDM does not allow you to cross distances [unless the GM handwaves that].

 

But I don't know how to sensibly make the summon target someone else each time.

The summoned arrow has an rudimentary intelligence. You say "Go to Beowulf" and it starts detecting Beowulf: Detect Person, sense, range, mega-scale, discriminatory.

[psm]

Re: Weird power build

 

EDM does not allow you to cross distances [unless the GM handwaves that].

 

The summoned arrow has an rudimentary intelligence. You say "Go to Beowulf" and it starts detecting Beowulf: Detect Person, sense, range, mega-scale, discriminatory.

 

I agree with you on the EDM. I feel that it is one of the often abused powers (but thats another discussion). I also agree with how the arrow finds the person too. Actually, yours is better because I didn't even think of discriminatory which is pretty important. I would definitely keep targeting off of it though. I feel thats a mechanic more for combat situations (once again to each their own).

 

However, I do have a problem with summoning. Not to harp on it (but I will ), how is a reverse summons not teleportation? Especially considering the arrow is doing the summoning (which too me makes no sense but thats just me). I understand why some of you would use mindlink or telepathy. Especially, if you consider the sending of the message to be part of the spell. In my head, I could see a character shooting the area with just a name on the note but no message. Thats why I indicated that I feel the content of the message shouldn't be a consideration in the power itself but thats how I view it which obviously many of you do not. But summons seems too much of a stretch for the mechanics.

 

Here's how I would write it up:

Teleport "5 (this could vary if you want it cheaper), megascale, must past through intervening space, (oaf) arrow/note only (you could also add in a limitation on weight - within 1 pound or something, so no Fed-ex packages)

Detect person, no sense group, megascale, non-targeting, discriminatory - Thanks mitchell

[MitchellS]

Re: Weird power build

 

The arrow isn't doing the summoning. The arrow is required for the "finding magic" to work. It might be better to build it as OIF: arrow of opportunity [so you can use it with any arrow] but I would personally like think the character must take time to prepare some special arrows. What you are doing is putting consciousness into an arrow so that it will go and seek-out the person you are looking for. This is similar to the Nega Beams power from the USPD.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Weird power build

 

... What you are doing is putting consciousness into an arrow so that it will go and seek-out the person you are looking for. This is similar to the Nega Beams power from the USPD.

My thoughts exactly. Now, since a summon (usually) isn't allowed in the typical arrows multipower, it will be a few extra points. However, since the summoned "creature" is relatively low points, once you slap on the charges and or/focus limitations, it's not too bad.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Weird power build

 

'Summon' - bah!

 

It's clearly a case for Megascale Cosmetic Transform! Itz cheep two!

[psm]

Re: Weird power build

 

Yes, but I don't see why it would be bad to have the arrow do all the work? To me its almost a variation on a heat seeking missile.

 

If you want the character to be more involved just have them place teleportation (or any other movement) on the arrow (Useable by other) for one charge. You could almost make it a naked advantage although that may be taking it too far.

 

Anyway, I've said my piece and I look forward to how you guys come up with an alternative solution.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Weird power build

 

Sorry, Mitchell---

 

I forgot the appropriate smilies on the EDM crack: it was another swipe at the running McJoke: EDM to the universe where the arrow is already where it's supposed to be, etc.....

 

"Hunh. I rolled an 18 on my PS: Comedian. What's that mean?"

"Well, for one it means your EDM crack won't go over well....."

 

That sort of thing.

 

And you're right; I was looking at summon the wrong way, figuring that the arrow would be 'summoned' to the recipient, message attached, etc.

 

Apparently I missed the completely obvious... Ooops.

[hooligan x]

Re: Weird power build

 

Here's how I would write it up:

Teleport "5 (this could vary if you want it cheaper), megascale, must past through intervening space, (oaf) arrow/note only (you could also add in a limitation on weight - within 1 pound or something, so no Fed-ex packages)

Detect person, no sense group, megascale, non-targeting, discriminatory

I could see this working. I would drop the "mst pass through intervening space" because the arrow will disappear after it's shot and reappear at the target's feet.

 

The arrow isn't doing the summoning. The arrow is required for the "finding magic" to work. It might be better to build it as OIF: arrow of opportunity [so you can use it with any arrow] but I would personally like think the character must take time to prepare some special arrows. What you are doing is putting consciousness into an arrow so that it will go and seek-out the person you are looking for.

So the archer summons the magic arrow and it does the mind scanning and teleportation or whatever the build? I don't know why, but it sounds weird...

 

I'd like the power to fit into a multipower, but you can't do summon or a compound power in a multipower. argg!

 

By the way, this is an npc so I won't have much difficulty convincing the GM to handwaive since I am he.

[MitchellS]

Re: Weird power build

 

So the archer summons the magic arrow and it does the mind scanning and teleportation or whatever the build? I don't know why' date=' but it sounds weird...[/quote']

You're not summoning an arrow, per say. You have the arrow in your quiver. What're you're doing is putting the magic into an arrow you have. There are 3 ways to do this with the summoning:

 

1- Message Arrow: Summon 150 pt arrow, OAF [arrow]: -1. Total cost: 15 pts.

This version means that you have an arrow that you use to cast a spell so that it will deliver attack to a normal arrow and deliver the message [an arrow you must touch to one in your quiver to make it work].

 

2- Message Arrow: Summon 150 pt arrow, OAF [arrow]: -1, 4 charges: -1. Total cost: 10 points.

This version would mean that you carry 6 messenger arrows with you at all times.

 

3- Message Arrow: Summon 150 pt arrow, OIF [arrow of opporutnity]: -1/2. Total cost: 20 pts.

This version would allow you to cast the magic on any arrow in your quiver.

 

As far as using summon, I have no problem with it because what you're really doing is telling an arrow to seek-out a specific person. You're giving the arrow some sapience to find that person for you no matter how far away.

 

The summon build is how you create Darkseid's Omni Beams which never miss; and that's what you're doing here too: creating an arrow that never misses finding its target.

 

As far as power frameworks, I have no idea what you are all talking about there. Summon is a standard power and can be put into power frameworks just fine.

[hooligan x]

Re: Weird power build

 

3- Message Arrow: Summon 150 pt arrow, OIF [arrow of opporutnity]: -1/2. Total cost: 20 pts.

This version would allow you to cast the magic on any arrow in your quiver.

The oif would be the magic quiver that the archer reaches into to find the summoned arrow. The quiver will be the oif for the whole multipower.

 

As far as using summon, I have no problem with it because what you're really doing is telling an arrow to seek-out a specific person. You're giving the arrow some sapience to find that person for you no matter how far away.

 

The summon build is how you create Darkseid's Omni Beams which never miss; and that's what you're doing here too: creating an arrow that never misses finding its target.

OK, I am convinced. The archer pays for summon and te arrow will pay for the rest. I think the arrow will disappear after the message is delivered and wait until being summoned again. This arrow will be possesed by the soul of a long dead warrior maybe...

 

As far as power frameworks, I have no idea what you are all talking about there. Summon is a standard power and can be put into power frameworks just fine.

Well, it was free crack day at the Shell station...

 

I think this is an old house rule from a long forgotten game that stayed in my gamng brain too long. Thanks.

[hooligan x]

Re: Weird power build

 

35 Arrows of Lao Chen: Multipower, 70-point reserve, all slots: (70 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Limited Power Must have a Bow (-1/2)

 

3u 1)Message Arrow Summon 140-point, Amicable Loyal (+1/2), Specific Being (+1) (70 Active Points)

 

How's this for the first slot? The quiver is the magic item. I looks like an old quiver with six arrows in it, but the archer can draw many more than six from it. Anyone with a bow can use it and any bow will do, from a child's toy to a 100# pull compound bow.

[MitchellS]

Re: Weird power build

 

35 Arrows of Lao Chen: Multipower' date=' 70-point reserve, all slots: (70 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Limited Power Must have a Bow (-1/2) [/i']

 

3u 1)Message Arrow Summon 140-point, Amicable Loyal (+1/2), Specific Being (+1) (70 Active Points)

 

How's this for the first slot? The quiver is the magic item. I looks like an old quiver with six arrows in it, but the archer can draw many more than six from it. Anyone with a bow can use it and any bow will do, from a child's toy to a 100# pull compound bow.

That looks really good. I might have to steal that now.

[psm]

Re: Weird power build

 

Honestly, I tried not to repsond. I don't like flame wars or even disagreeing with people. Plus, I know that in Hero you can build the same thing in multiple ways but I just understand the use of summons in this equation. Maybe its that I just don't understand the mechanics or I don't understand what is trying to be accomplished.

 

First, I agree that the arrow should be able to detect the receiver. According to the description the sender should be oblivious to the location of the recipient. Ergo the arrow needs to find them.

 

Now, the second part is where I'm having problems. According to the mechanics a summons is a one way street where an object brings something to it. Wouldn't putting a summons on the arrow actually bring the recipient to the arrow not vice a versa. For this spell to work the way you want it to wouldn't you actually have to place the summons spell on the reciever to bring the arrow to him. Which is fine although it seems a bit convuleted. I hope you can enlighten me a bit.

 

(Lastly, how do I get rid of that weird simely face in the corner. Or am I the only that sees it?)

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Weird power build

 

...Now' date=' the second part is where I'm having problems. According to the mechanics a summons is a one way street where an object brings something to it. Wouldn't putting a summons on the arrow actually bring the recipient to the arrow not vice a versa. For this spell to work the way you want it to wouldn't you actually have to place the summons spell on the reciever to bring the arrow to him. Which is fine although it seems a bit convuleted. I hope you can enlighten me a bit.[/quote']

I'm afraid you have it a bit backwards. It's not the target that is doing the summoning.

 

Let me change the special effects as an example: Imagine the classic routine where a wizard sends a raven to deliver his dark message. He summons a raven, then commands it to go find the intended recipient. Now replace the raven with an arrow, and voila! The ability to find the target and deliver the message lies solely within the raven/arrow.

[hooligan x]

Re: Weird power build

 

The arrow is summoned to the archer. He ties a note to it then the arrow is shot from the bow. From then on, it is the sentient arrow's job to find and travel to the target. It's like summoning a dog and telling him to find Timmy.

 

The power isn't to deliver the message, We have sub-contracted that job to a summoned entity.

 

It took me a while to get it too.

[psm]

Re: Weird power build

 

Okay, now I'm beginning to see. Changing the special effects really helped. But I'm still not seeing the whole picture. How does the arrow get to the recipient? In the case of the raven/lassie the locomotion is provided by the animal. Wouldn't the arrow still be hampered by the range of the shooter? Bushido's EDM is beginning to look better and better:)

 

Sorry, to be such a pain guys. Thanks for trying to explain.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Weird power build

 

Okay' date=' now I'm beginning to see. Changing the special effects really helped. But I'm still not seeing the whole picture. How does the arrow get to the recipient? In the case of the raven/lassie the locomotion is provided by the animal. Wouldn't the arrow still be hampered by the range of the shooter? [/quote']

Well, the best explanation for this is in Hooligan X's very first sentence in the thread...it's magic!

Sorry, to be such a pain guys. Thanks for trying to explain.

Not at all, this is what the boards are here for. We're generally a pretty friendly bunch.

 

 

 

Just don't mention any "Batman vs." ideas and you'll be fine

[hooligan x]

Re: Weird power build

 

Is the Summon build cheating? Sorta, but let's look at the alternate build...

 

83 Mind Scan 10d6, Megascale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), One Way Link (+1) (187 Active Points); Conditional Power Only to find message recipiant (-1), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)

plus

20 Teleportation 10", Usable By Other (+1/4), Megascale (1" = 100 km; +3/4) (40 Active Points); Conditional Power Arrow only (-1)

 

This is nowhere near powerful enough yet look at the cost! With all my points spent on this power,my archer will be reduced to Captain Letter Sender. Ultimatly. it doesn't matter as this is an NPC and I can fudge the build, but I have never found a power this hard to build before and it bugged the hell out of me.

 

I am curious how it would be built in a DOJ book.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Weird power build

 

Okay, now I'm beginning to see. Changing the special effects really helped. But I'm still not seeing the whole picture. How does the arrow get to the recipient? In the case of the raven/lassie the locomotion is provided by the animal. Wouldn't the arrow still be hampered by the range of the shooter? Bushido's EDM is beginning to look better and better:)

 

Sorry, to be such a pain guys. Thanks for trying to explain.

Depends on the Movement Powers the Arrow has. It's a Magic Arrow - it uses Magic to get where it needs to go.

 

Megascaled Flight is a good one, since it's Magic there's some sapience there so it flies until it no longer needs to fly. Of course, that one could take a while to get there.

 

Megascaled Teleport makes it disappear from one place, appear in another. a Teleport Multipower Pool on the Arrow could easily get it some Teleports to go around the world or around the block.

 

The SFX have already told us the Range is "anywhere" to get the message delivered, so we've already bypassed the strength of the shooter with that scenario. It's a non-issue.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Weird power build

 

While I think summon is a good approach, I was also thinking about Telepathy, limited accordingly to fit the SFX. What about something like this:

 

(11) Messenger Arrow: Telepathy 3d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 100,000 km; +1 1/2), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4); OIF (-1/2), Language Barrier (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Broadcast Only (-1/2), Sent Message is a Physical Object (-1/2), Sense Affected As More Than One Sense [sight] (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)

 

Granted Megascale precludes messages within 1km, but simply toss this into a Multipower with a similar build using an appropriately advantaged Telepathy without megascale and it works fine.

The only problem with this writeup is that it still requires the archer to know where the target is. Mind Scanm is still necessary for targetting, or a detect of some sort.