shaunclinton Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 ...Anyone!!! Who do you think pushes the limits of Spiderman? Spidey vs. X-men? Spidey vs. Fantastic Four? Spidey vs. The Avengers? Okay, so probably not so much on the last one!!! I'm curious as to what you all think as it has at various points been suggested that Spidey could handle the X-men (depending on roster, certainly the original one) and probably could take the FF!!! Other novel suggestions include the Strazinikisinkintiszi Spidey asserting that he could "beat the Hulk, but not without killing him" which is bizarre! Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... In Spidey's own comic, he could beat any of them including the Avengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Unless Spiderman takes them out first both Marvel Girl and the Invisible Woman could take out Spiderman solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Spider-man had a clash or two with the original X-men. He managed to surpise them and then get away without being captured, but you need to keep in mind that the original X-Men were not that popular a comic book. With the second group of Xmen the Spidey/Woverine battle had them basically killing each other in a draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Anyone who's followed Spidey for a long time knows that you don't piss him off. When truly angry he can beat anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Spidey has super-reflexes with a danger sense, superhuman strength, a keen mind, oodles of experience, and a one heck of a will to win. And then there's the webbing. He's pretty darn bad to the bone. I can see him giving most groups a tough time but the Avengers have Thor. 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Not sure that I would go quite as far as saying Spidey could take on whole teams of front liners, but he has legitimately beaten Firelord before, so one on one, it's hard to put anyone out of his league. He's just so experienced and so smart. He can out think almost anyone. If you read his comic, that's usually what happens, he loses the first round because he doesn't know the lay of the land(i.e. - who he is fighting, what their goals are, in some cases what their powers are). But once he can assess the situation, he can come up with a plan to get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I don't really see much point in discussing it, really. Spidey is pretty much Marvels top iconic character, and as such he gets a whole lot of writer fiat that lets him win, period. Same thing that Supes and Bats have in DC. my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... From what I've been told, Spider-Man took on the X-Men in Secret Wars and since he does have a highly effective in combat danger sense and probably the most agile hero in the Marvel U, he schooled them....until Xavier pulled a mind whamy on him. Also he did take on the Avengers in one of the early issues of the Marvel Knights Spider-Man (there was a misunderstanding when he broke into the mansion) and was really holding his own until Quicksilver showed up. As for the FF, the only thing I can think of is waaaay back in Amazing Spider-Man #1. IIRC, he broke into the Baxter Building and got into a fight with them simply so he could show him what he could do in hopes of getting hired by them. If anyone knows if this is what happened or not let me know, I wouldn't mind expanding my knowledge of the character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libra Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... What about Spiderman Vs Batman? That would be one fight I would love to see. (Not in the same league as Batman Vs Captain America, but still . . .) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... What about Spiderman Vs Batman? That would be one fight I would love to see. (Not in the same league as Batman Vs Captain America' date=' but still . . .)[/quote'] Yeah, that would be over quick. "Don't get in my way. I've studied 32 martial arts and there are dozens of ways I could take you down without breaking a sweat. I..." THWIPP! "Hey, nice cape. Since you're dressed like a bat, I'm sure you won't mind being hung upside down for a while." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libra Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... That is assuming that Spidey got the drop on Batman. Remember that Spidey may be experianced, and he may be clever, but Batman is on a whole other level tactically, strategicaly and Gadgeteeringly. He would probably bushwack Spidey. It can be done.Somehow. And Batman has fought Superman to a standstill, using cunning and Strategy. Spidey is twice as vulnerable to psychological manipulation as Supes. I do love the quip though. It is purest Spidey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... That is assuming that Spidey got the drop on Batman. Remember that Spidey may be experianced' date=' and he may be clever, but Batman is on a whole other level tactically, strategicaly and Gadgeteeringly. He would probably bushwack Spidey. It can be done.Somehow. And Batman has fought Superman to a standstill, using cunning and Strategy. Spidey is twice as vulnerable to psychological manipulation as Supes. I do love the quip though. It is purest Spidey.[/quote'] And remember an 80 year old man in a flight suit has given Spiderman a battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... And remember an 80 year old man in a flight suit has given Spiderman a battle. Let's see...Vulture... ...Penguin...yeah, I'd take Vulture in that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Other novel suggestions include the Strazinikisinkintiszi Spidey asserting that he could "beat the Hulk, but not without killing him" which is bizarre! Any thoughts? Whose assertion was this, J. Michael's or Spiderman's? I can't see how Spidey could beat the Hulk, but as always, the host comic is gonna have the right-of-way. In other words, it'll go however the writers want it to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I can't see how Spidey could beat the Hulk' date=' but as always, the host comic is gonna have the right-of-way. In other words, it'll go however the writers want it to go.[/quote'] I remember reading Spidey tell MJ about how he could beat The Hulk. It was basiclly using his speed and agility to avoid his blows and wear him out until he reverts back to Bruce Banner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunclinton Posted May 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Yeah, basically Spidey was fighting some Gamma-irradiated guy who was super-strong, super-tough et al. So he came up with a way to beat him based on some ideas he'd had about the Hulk. So Pete's explaining it to MJ and he's saying how Hulk has to replenish the gamma-energy in his blood yadda-yadda-yadda and how this guy has no off-mode (ie. Banner) and so Pete can beat him by dodging about and tiring him out... and then MJ asks if Peter could beat the Hulk in a fight or if he's thought about it or something. So he says sure, I've thought about it, these things come up... he could do it, but not without killing him. However, I'm fairly sure that the Hulk's endurance levels are ridiculous and that you couldn't 'tire him to death', so I'm sure there's supposed to be more to it than that. The notion is frankly a little ludicrous. I suppose, in Champions terms, if you made Hulk real mad he'd get stronger and stronger, and so long as you kept out of his way he tire easier (as he's using more END) but you'd think the Hulk's END and REC would be phenomenal. Exactly how long can Spidey keep this dance up for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... While JMS is doing a lot to make Spider-Man the threat he deserves to be, Bendis is letting Ultimate inexperience bleed into mainstream Spidey. Where the heck was Spider-Man's spider sense when he lept head-first into the prison break in New Avengers? He got his arm broke by Jigsaw of all people. A shot of webbing down the throat of the Rampaging Hulk takes care of him in a hurry. "Hulk smash own windpipe, Rarrrr!" Spider-Man alone couldn't consistently beat any of those teams you mentioned. Not with the main players involved. Cyclops, Colossus, Beast, Shadowcat, Wolverine, Emma Frost-no way. Storm and Nightcrawler X-men-no way. The FF? Please. Any Avengers with Cap involved, nope. Any Avengers without Cap involved ain't Avengers. One on one against any non-cosmic player in the Marvel Universe, good odds on Spidey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Spidey is very good against just about any single hero or villain. As for beating the Hulk, I could see it. The "duck and dodging" thing was probably for MJ's benefit. Realistically, Spidey beats him the same way he beat Juggernaut by dumping the Hulk into a huge slab of quickcrete which is hardening in the earth, or that ducking and dodging leads the Hulk into some highly radiated place that messes with his radiation balance and puts him down, of course, what Spidey leaves out about it(for MJ's sake), is that it probably half kills Spidey too. The idea is that the "ducking and dodging" is basically how he buys time to outsmart the Hulk. It could definitely happen. Sure, he gets a little bit of license in his own book for being Marvel's top selling character, but when they write it well, it's still believable that he beats people out of his league on pure power(although he's more powerful than most people think). And it pretty well always involves Spidey outmaneuvering, in more than one sense. If I'm Batman, the plan of attack is pretty obvious. Take away his spider sense by laying a trap and leaving an obvious trail. When he gets there, set off bombs/fires EVERYWHERE at once to overload his spidersense, then backstab him with a powerful tranquilizer. Even if he doesn't drop from it, it should slow him down enough to let me hit and run to finish him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunclinton Posted May 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Actually, Spidey is one of the few characters I wouldn't hand victory to Batman right away against. The reason why Spidey can hold his own against almost anyone??? Spider Sense + Amazing Agility! It really is a get out clause against almost any opponent. And when the writer (if indeed that is your real occupation!) conveniently forgets about that combo it really cheeses me off. I just read the Bendis 'New Avengers' thing and the Spidey broken-arm was just rotten. Shouldn't have happened, I can't even think why it happened other than to show that Spidey needs to be a team-player (which he doesn't really) in this new set-up. Bendis is getting mixed up somewhere! Good writers have Spidey in mid-air thinking things like 'Spider-sense warned me but can't change direction in time' or Spidey ignoring his Spider-sense and taking a pasting because he's busy saving someone. And occasionally a foe gets the better of him just because he's dangerous!!! Bendis obviously wasn't a great fan of Spider-sense because it hardly ever comes up in any useful capacity in Ultimate Spidey, and so he just left it out. Also, Spidey's STR is often under-rated. I think everyone agrees that it's somewhere in the 40-45 range (I'd go with 43 myself!) but what everyone forgets is that he's got the biggest push outside of the Hulk!!! He's gotta have another 20-25 points at ENDx5 or 10 with the limitation 'Must Think of MJ or Aunt May or Uncle Ben'! All in all the Spidey package isn't to be underestimated. And he'd beat Cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I probably wouldn;t give Spidey the win over the Hulk, but I wouldn't necessarily give Batman the win over Spidey either. In both cases it could really go either way, mostly depending on environmental factors in the first fight. I totally agree with the 43 Str based on his old Marvel writeups. The Spider Sense is often very vague. Some writers feel it's of limited use when he's fighting a swarm of opponents, since obviously danger is all around him. If I remember correctly Spidey got draged down under the weight of several oppoents in New Avengers before he got hurt. And he wouldn't beat Cap, just on the basis that cap effectivly has an extra +20 Presence against him. Pete would psyche himself out and do something stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garou Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... As for the FF' date=' the only thing I can think of is waaaay back in Amazing Spider-Man #1. IIRC, he broke into the Baxter Building and got into a fight with them simply so he could show him what he could do in hopes of getting hired by them. If anyone knows if this is what happened or not let me know, I wouldn't mind expanding my knowledge of the character. [/quote'] Yep, that's basically what happens. Spidey and the Thing exchange blows (though the Thing initially pulls punches), Spidey webs Mr. Fantastic, evades Invisible Woman, and dodges the Torch. He's not really attacking, and they're trying to contain him, not hurt him, so it's not really a "fight" per se. It ends in a draw when Mr. Fantastic demands to know what is going on. When they inform him that they pay no salary and make comments about Spidey being wanted by the police, he exists the scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... The only Marvel character I'd give dibs in agility over Spidey is Nightcrawler. And about Spidey's str being underrated; SPidey fights mostly goons and street thugs, especially early on, So he got used to pulling his punch. (This has actually come up in Spidey's comics before.) And Spidey would psyke himself out against Cap. I can see the thought bubble now: "I'm fighting Captain 'freaking' America!" Then he gets decked by a punch while dodging the sheild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garou Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I probably wouldn;t give Spidey the win over the Hulk, but I wouldn't necessarily give Batman the win over Spidey either. In both cases it could really go either way, mostly depending on environmental factors in the first fight. I know that Spidey has faced the Hulk before (in the early issues - at least twice before #125, I think), and he does quite well, up until the point where Hulk starts tossing big heavy objects around. Eventually Hulk gets really, really ticked and lands a lucky punch of uses an AoE attack, and Spidey has to retreat. Coincidentally, this is usually when enough heavy artillery arrives to dissuade the Hulk from staying. The first encounter of Spidey v. Batman probably would wind up as Supreme Serpent wrote. The second would go more like this: S: Back for more? For such a great detective, you sure are a slow learner. Thippp Hissss (sound of webbing dissolving) Fwap, fwap, fwap (smoke-releasing batarangs go flying) S: Hah! Smokes won't affect my trusty Spidey-sense. Hey! Where'd you go? I can't sense you in all this smoke. Bamf! Pow! Kablooie! *thump of Spidey hitting the floor, KO'd* B: That's the problem with superpowers. You never learn how to think your way out of a problem. See, Batman cheats. He'd probably lose the first time, and then come up with all sorts of gadgets and gizmos to counteract Spidey's powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... With this senario, How did BAtman learn of Spidey's Spider-sense (pp)? He didn't need it in the first encounter, and Spiderman doesn't usually advertise the fact, though he does comment about every once in a while. Also how does Batman figure out how to block it? The only characters who could do it reliably are Venoom and Carnage. Because of the Costume connection. And Spidey prctices "blind". He ties a blindfold over his eyes then dodges around the room, using his spidey sense to keep from hitting the furniture in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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