Punisher Vs Batman

[L.Craig]

Who Would Win

[MitchellS]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

No one. It's comic books.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

This oughta be a poll.

 

And Batman.

[MitchellS]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Generally speaking I think comic books have a martial arts/HTH pecking order broken into 3 tiers that runs something like this:

 

Deathstroke the Terminator

Shang Chi

Captain America

Batman

 

Black Panther

Wolverine

Daredevil

Punisher

 

Ironfist

Nightwing

Falcon

Robin

 

Everyone else just fills in as need be.

[Tae Kwon Dan]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Ah-ha commence the arguments. Wolverine needs to be in tier 1 in my humble opinion. He was a heck of an MA and pretty close to Cap it was just that he used his healing factor as sort of a modified Iron Shirt Kung-Fu style and thus took a lot of damage.

 

Remember in the X-men vs. Teen Titans crossover he was able to sneak up on Deathstroke.

[MitchellS]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Ah-ha commence the arguments. Wolverine needs to be in tier 1 in my humble opinion. He was a heck of an MA and pretty close to Cap it was just that he used his healing factor as sort of a modified Iron Shirt Kung-Fu style and thus took a lot of damage.

 

Remember in the X-men vs. Teen Titans crossover he was able to sneak up on Deathstroke.

I just chose the tiers based off of who I thought could evenly fight someone else within the tier. So depending on the writer each character in a tier might win or lose against someone else in that tier. At no time have I ever felt that Wolverine could defeat Captain America in a fight, and so he is relegated to tier 2, IMO.

[Whitewings]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Let's see:

 

The Punisher: Decorated vet and ex-cop. Subtle as a train wreck, generally. Good shooter, passable brawler. I'm not thoroughly familiar with the Punisher, but frankly he doesn't seem to be all that.

 

Bruce Wayne: One of the greatest martial artists in the DC universe. The world's greatest detective. A suberb tactician and strategist, only people like the Joker (who's completely psychotic) can out-plan him. Batman is all that and a side of fries.

 

Barring some extraordinary fluke, if Batman and the Punisher were to cross paths and be at odds, the Punisher would lose.

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Batman.

 

The only thing the Punisher has over Batman is guns, and Batman doesn't need guns.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

It's happened twice: once out of continuity (a crossover special), once in continuity during the JLA/Avengers miniseries. Batman handled Punisher handily both times.

 

Oh, and if we want to talk top-tier comic book martial artists, Karate Kid (from the Legion of Super-Heroes) is pretty much in a class by himself.

[Force]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Who Would Win

 

It's not even close.

 

Bats.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

The Bat is THE premier MA of the DC Universe, and has Capt America class characteristics as well.

 

It's not even a close contest. The Bat wins.

[MitchellS]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

The Bat is THE premier MA of the DC Universe, and has Capt America class characteristics as well.

 

It's not even a close contest. The Bat wins.

Actually I think there are a few martial artists in the DC Universe who are better. Lady Shiva being a perfect example. But Batman is definitely top tier and Punisher is a second-tier character.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Actually I think there are a few martial artists in the DC Universe who are better. Lady Shiva being a perfect example. But Batman is definitely top tier and Punisher is a second-tier character.

Bats has beaten Lady Shiva multiple times. Took everything he had, and if he was already injured or exhausted she'd win, but assuming they are each in their top form Bats wins.

[MitchellS]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Bats has beaten Lady Shiva multiple times. Took everything he had' date=' and if he was already injured or exhausted she'd win, but assuming they are each in their top form Bats wins.[/quote']

Well the only 2 issues I have of them fighting Batman lost both times, but I haven't collected Batman for a few years and I'm not up on the current continuity. The whole broken back and coming back thing turned me away long ago.

[pinecone]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Sorry man...I like Punisher, but the bat wins.....maybe a combat shotgun from ambush, but who the bleep can ambush Batman?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Well the only 2 issues I have of them fighting Batman lost both times' date=' but I haven't collected Batman for a few years and I'm not up on the current continuity. The whole broken back and coming back thing turned me away long ago. [/quote']

 

I remember one story in which Lady Shiva was beating Batman using her weaponry, but then declared that it wasn't a fair contest because Bats didn't use lethal weapons. She switched to fighting him barehanded and he began to overwhelm her.

[Black Omega]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Well the only 2 issues I have of them fighting Batman lost both times' date=' but I haven't collected Batman for a few years and I'm not up on the current continuity. The whole broken back and coming back thing turned me away long ago. [/quote']

 

Have to agree here. I know they did the weird stuff in Batgirl. But the only issue I have where Bats beat Shiva was during Death in the Family and that was with Robin's help. If she's apeared in Bats in the last couple of years and fought him I'll have to find it. Last time I saw her in Bats she was nearly killing Catwoman.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Bruce fights when he has to and then to win. Shiva fights because she likes it and then to kill.

 

Shiva is just as fast and just as well trained in the unarmed arts as Bruce, but she is bloodthristy and has no respect for the "softer" styles that do not focus on crippling or killing an opponent. She also has more MA weapon skills than Bruce has. Shiva is definitely the best female MA "human" in DC, and very likely second only to Bruce overall. Like most women competing to be first in a "Man's world", she's compensated for lesser Str, size, etc by being nastier.

 

Her bloodthirsty nature and disdain of any definition of "win" that does not involve permanent incapacitation or death are her first flaw that holds back her further MA development. The other is her "honarable arrogance" that leads her to believe that her opponents must have at least, if not more, weapons capability when fighting her for it to be a "fair" fight. Those two factors are the basis for how Bruce beats her.

 

OTOH, this is NOT an easy task for Bruce, and he has to be at his ABSOLUTE best to have any chance at all of pulling it off. And both of them know it.

 

For Shiva, Bruce is both a long-desired (and needed) Worthy Opponent and a big puzzle. How can a MA with a "weaker" philosophy be better than she is bare-handed? Shiva does not want to believe that Bruce (or anyone else) has anything to teach her, but she knows deep down that she lacks some understanding and she's honest enough to acknowledge Bruce's results. So part of the relationship between Shiva and Bruce is combat as philosophical debate as contest...

[Theron]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

According to the DCU RPG from a few years back, and based on the official word from DC at the time, the top Martial Artists in the DCU were (in order):

 

Richard Dragon

Lady Shiva

Batgirl (the new one)

Robin

Batman

 

The rationale for Robin being better than Bats was that Dick is younger and a better athlete. Not sure I buy it, but that's how DC rated them circa 2000.

[Rick R Mortis]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

This was covered in JLA/AVengers.

 

Bats dropped in on the Punisher and bet him up off panel, then got back to what he was doing. And it didn;t even look like he was bothereed or worked up or anyhting afterwards.

 

So the answer would be Batman.

[Black Omega]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

According to the DCU RPG from a few years back, and based on the official word from DC at the time, the top Martial Artists in the DCU were (in order):

 

Richard Dragon

Lady Shiva

Batgirl (the new one)

Robin

Batman

 

The rationale for Robin being better than Bats was that Dick is younger and a better athlete. Not sure I buy it, but that's how DC rated them circa 2000.

 

On the other hand, if memory serves correctly a couple of DC writers have said in pure martial arts Shiva is best, but I'm not sure that was before the new Richard Dragon series or not. He was in limbo for a long time.

 

And just to answer the initial question, no question Batman wins over the Punisher.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

I dislike Batman these days; but the Dork with the skull is even worse. Batman would make him wet himself.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

According to the DCU RPG from a few years back, and based on the official word from DC at the time, the top Martial Artists in the DCU were (in order):

 

Richard Dragon

Lady Shiva

Batgirl (the new one)

Robin

Batman

 

The rationale for Robin being better than Bats was that Dick is younger and a better athlete. Not sure I buy it, but that's how DC rated them circa 2000.

 

I'm not sure where Richard Dragon falls in this (although the end of his series should tell the tale shortly). However, Batgirl has beaten Lady Shiva, as has Green Arrow Conner Hawke. As I recall, much ado was made of the latter, making him "the best" according to martial arts circles. Since he's also in the Richard Dragon wrapup, we'll doubtless be able to look forward to years of debates over whether the end result is, or is not, correct.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

Between the Punisher and the Bat, I gotta vote for the Bat. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to who's writing it. If memory serves, the Punisher just took out Daredevil, Spiderman and Wolverine AT THE SAME TIME less then a year ago.

 

I believe Warren Ellis was responsible for that tripe, but I may be mistaken.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

 

IMHO, Bats is the DCU version of Capt America.

 

His characteristics are as high as you can go and still be human; he's incredibly well trained mentally, physically, and emotionally; he's immensely knowledgable on a number of fronts; AND he's got all the infrastructure, perks, and contacts of a multi-billionaire high tech industrialist.

 

Combine that with a personality that exemplifies "driven" better than any other character ever has in literature.

 

The Punisher isn't anywhere in his league on any front.

 

Hyper-specialists in an field like Shiva is in MA (or Richard Dragon, Prometheous, Zeiss, etc) can make his life VERY difficult when he competes in their "turf", but that's partially because he's usually doing other things as well when he runs into them.

 

Give Bruce the chance to start refreshed and to completely concentrate that intense focus of his on MA, and he's VERY close to the best, if not the best, MA in the DCU... ...And that REALLY annoys MA who've spent their entire lives dedicated to nothing but MA. Some of them don't believe it. Some of them CAN"T believe it. Some of them believe it but think "he got The Title easily".

 

That's WHY all the MA crawl out of the wood-work to take him on. Just like gunfighters in the Old West looking to test themselves against the best they've heard of.