Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

[Susano]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Which one lets you do those landscape-wrecking ch'i blasts.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Which one lets you do those landscape-wrecking ch'i blasts.

Nin ten do

[Dauntless]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Rather than list what styles I think are important, I'll list what qualities I think are most important. They're listed in no particular importance:

 

1) Timing

The Japanese would call this Ma-ai (space time). Some Japanese masters went so far as to say that if you mastered this, you couldn't be hit no matter how quick your opponent. Bruce Lee said that all dancers can become martial artists because they have a sense of timing, but not all martial artists can be dancers (because not all of them do). As an aside, Bruce was a former Cha-cha champion in Hong Kong, David Carradine got his role in Kung Fu because he was a dancer, as did Michelle Yeoh and Zhang Ziyi.

 

2) Sensitivity/Harmony

Chinese call this Ting Jing ('listening energy'), and the Japanese might call it Musubi. Sensitivity is the ability to "feel" what your opponent is going to do. It can be based on sight...by observing your opponents stance, foot position, muscle tension, where his eyes are looking, his breathing, etc, or it can be based on touch (chi sao helps develop this skill as do many aikido drills). It can even be quasi-mystical (in aikido, the idea ultimately is to receive your opponent's intention, his "will to attack", and it is the intention itself as opposed to the physical attack which is intercepted and redirected).

 

3) Pain Tolerance

This is where western arts excel. In eastern styles, it is often taught to avoid blows at all costs. The rationale for this tactic is that either a) attacks are so powerful that one hit can kill, or to get you used to the idea that if your opponent has a weapon, you better get used to not getting hit at all. Western arts on the hand train the pugilist's pain tolerance. This is IMHO a good thing since you never know when you're going to get hit.

 

4) No Mind

The classic mushin of Japanese combat theory. Soho Takuan, the famous Buddhist monk who was friends with Japan's two greatest swordsmen ever, Miyamoto Musashi and Yagyu Munenori) often said that "the mind should be nowhere in particular". The mind should never be fixated on anything. It shouldn't be thinking about the opponent's move, or how to counter respond. It shouldn't be thinking of victory or defeat. Nor should it be concentrating on anything. It simply must be left alone and not allowed to abide on anything.

 

5) No Emotion

The corollary to No Mind is No Emotion. One should not be fearful or angry, vengeful or egotistic. The Chinese believe in two minds, Hsin, the emotional mind, and Yi, the Wisdom mind. They believe that Yi must always dominate Hsin and keep it under control. The samurai also had an old maxim, "Control your emotions, or they will control you".

 

6) Calmness

Going hand in hand with the above two is being calm, or without tension. Only when you are relaxed will you perform at your peak power and speed. Muscle tension slows you down and also makes getting hit worse. The only time you want to tense up is when you brace your body at the point of impact.

 

7) Endurance

This is the great equalizer. If your opponent is better than you are, but you have the better endurance, just wear him out. If you have good Timing as above, then this should be easy. However if you lack good timing, and your opponent is good at it, he'll be able to get in his licks before he tires out.

 

8) Minimalism

Don't be flashy and use up energy. Why throw a high kick to kick someone in the head if it's not necessary (many jumping kicks were originally designed to unhorse a rider)? While Eight Pieces Brocade (a Chinese euphemism for all flash and no substance) may be good for a PRE attack, all it's going to do is wear you out. Economy of motion is the key, and much of Bruce Lee's combat training (Jeet Kune Do) was about this.

 

9) Diversity

Know kicks, punches, grappling, joint locks, holds, submission work, weapon work and everything else that you can. The more tools in your arsenal, the better your chance of finding the tool that fits. Plus, what're you going to do if you only know TKD, and a guy does a shoot for your legs, takes you down, and puts you in an ankle lock? If you don't know how to escape, you're screwed.

 

10) Awareness

Not sensitivity, but a situational awareness. Fights in real life aren't arena duels. They happen in bars where your adversaries buddies might gang up on you, or in the battlefield where the enemy could be anywhere. Going hand in hand with No Mind, you shouldn't focus your attention solely on your opponent. Use the terrain to your advantage.

 

11) Internal is External, External is Internal

This is the realization that the internal powers the external, and the external realizes the internal. In other words, all things start with an internal intention. From this, an external event is generated. External force without internal foundation will be brittle, and internal strength without a strong framework is futile.

[OddHat]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

No particular criticism of any specific post, but...

 

I lift weights for hobby reasons (not that I look like it). I used to study various martial arts on and off, as a hobby. I've worked in urban high crime areas in the USA and overseas, and I've lived or worked in cities all my life. I've been chased by an angry gang, caught in two riots, and threatened by thugs. Not once in my adut life have I actually needed to fight beyond knocking someone down and walking quickly away. When guys over 25 start talking about their street smart brawling skills, I tend to wonder if maybe they're watching too many action movies...

 

My suggestion to anyone who wants to study, is to study what you want. It's all fun. If you want to defend yourself, take a self defense class for the very basic stuff that actually comes in handy, stay fit, and maybe buy a gun.

 

For a Champions campaign, pick Charge or Sacrifice Lunge and Flying Dodge, and buy your movement with Combat Accelleration.

[Iuz the Evil]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

No particular criticism of any specific post, but...

 

I lift weights for hobby reasons (not that I look like it). I used to study various martial arts on and off, as a hobby. I've worked in urban high crime areas in the USA and overseas, and I've lived or worked in cities all my life. I've been chased by an angry gang, caught in two riots, and threatened by thugs. Not once in my adut life have I actually needed to fight beyond knocking someone down and walking quickly away. When guys over 25 start talking about their street smart brawling skills, I tend to wonder if maybe they're watching too many action movies...

 

Damn...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to OddHat again.

 

You're hilarious man, I consistently enjoy reading your posts. Not that what you stated isn't 100% accurate, it's just the delivery is such a fine example of witty humor it often makes me laugh out loud.

[Dauntless]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

I lift weights for hobby reasons (not that I look like it). I used to study various martial arts on and off, as a hobby. I've worked in urban high crime areas in the USA and overseas, and I've lived or worked in cities all my life. I've been chased by an angry gang, caught in two riots, and threatened by thugs. Not once in my adut life have I actually needed to fight beyond knocking someone down and walking quickly away. When guys over 25 start talking about their street smart brawling skills, I tend to wonder if maybe they're watching too many action movies...

 

That's why I think the most important qualities are really mental aspects rather than physical ones. I've only been in two real fights myself (though definitely not of the life-or-death kind), not including breaking up a couple more involving some drunken friends, but from those two encounters (as well as my on and off training in various martial arts) I really feel that the mental components are vitally important.

 

I'm 6', 192, and work out with weights too and can still do full front and side splits (I can easily kick someone my height in the head with a side kick or hook kick). But I often get my ass handed to me by smaller guys who're quicker, or older guys (even though somewhat of an old fart at 33 myself) who bide their time and are more patient. In the end, physical prowess isn't as important as proper mental attitude IMHO.

 

My suggestion to anyone who wants to study, is to study what you want. It's all fun. If you want to defend yourself, take a self defense class for the very basic stuff that actually comes in handy, stay fit, and maybe buy a gun.

 

Definitely study whatever you think suits you. As Bruce said, you have to find what works for you, and throw out what doesn't work for you. As I said earlier, all arts have the same root.

 

Though I'm not sure about the fun part. Yagyu Muneonori whom I mentioned earlier had no real life experience until one battle, and during that first battle he killed over ten people (Munenori was involved in more actual battles than Musashi, whereas Musashi was mostly a duellist...though Musashi did fight in some battles, such as the Shimabarra revolt). He was able to do this because he treated every training session with the utmost intensity (and it doesn't hurt that his father was the one person whom Musashi actually turned down a duel from). So when people say that if you've never fought before you don't know how to fight, I disagree wholeheartedly with that statement. In fact, in Europe, the nobles who were very well trained were usually better fighters than the common foot soldier who had more real world practical experience. I think that if you do want to train for self-defense, you have to take it very seriously. If you only do it half-heartedly or for fun, then realize that its benefits will only be for health.

 

That being said, as I mentioned earlier, I believe the real training is all psychological and mental. That's why I think you have to a serious frame of mind to learn self-defense.

[tm80401]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Going back to the initial list, Boxing is probably a must have for a 'Batmanesque' street vigilante.

 

I remember reading an article, I think in Newsweek or some other kind of news mag, talking about the martial arts. The writer was actually at the ShaoLin monastery in China and noticed one of the monks shadowboxing. When the writer asked the monk about it, he was told that boxing was the art that would get someone to the point of being able to defend themselves the most rapidly. I figure that any street fighter, going into the profession deliberately, would learn boxing because it would be the most rapidly useful.

[SuperPheemy]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Sinanju. There is no substitute.

[ThothAmon]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Intriguing list. However, if you can master any 10 systemized arts it doesn't really matter what they are you'll still be death on legs. Take a close look at Steven Segal on screen - although a possibly controversial example and a fat git to boot he has a number of different arts in his repertoire and it shows - flexibility and focus combined to make a real badass.

 

I've had training in traditional Goju karate, shorinji kempo, Muay Thai, judo and military unarmed combat. Despite this I'd suggest that mental approach is more important than any specific style. As a famous warrior once quoted "Train hard, fight easy".

 

OddHat's comments also find resonance with me - my record has never been better than 50/50 and I have the scars to back up my experiences - there's always someone faster, stronger, younger, luckier, with more buddies, less drunk or better armed. If I can walk away from a confrontation then I will do so as the real winners are those who don't have to fight. Sun Tzu and Musashi Miyamoto have left wisdom in this area for us to grasp

 

Most people do not have the time and dedication required to become truly skilled whereas supers have it easy. In the Western world we are mesmerized by the idea of a gaining a black belt. In actuality the belt system is a trick invented to keep Westerners interested. The real meaning of a black belt for traditonal Japanese practitioners is when your white belt turns black because you never wash it during all the time you train - typically 10 years of hard training two to three times a week. If you can do that in any one style then you should be confident, never mind multiple styles.

 

I'd also venture to suggest that the single most useful real-world 'street' style is actually jujitsu or it's allegedly gentler cousin judo. Most formalized martial arts are useless once you are on the ground - these two are not. A strong super trained in these forms would be formidable indeed. Boxing is also worthy of consideration as (A) it concentrates on a small number of techniques ( you actually fight when practicing and © footwork and conditioning are a significant part of the mix.

 

Finally I'd like to echo those who have suggested Sinanju - it is indeed the One True Art

[Starwolf]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Scratch that. Buy a judge. Or a cop.

 

I whip out my trusty six shooter!

 

You whip out your trusty Judge AND a trusty Cop!

 

I double tap both of them and then you...dang now my trusty six shooter is empty...time to reload

[Cerebro]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Aikido only would work on a comic book,Kun fu wont even work there. Sure,against a man who dosent know how to fight,anything will work.

 

Brazilian jujitsu,Luta libre and Grecoroman-wrestling for grappling and submissions. Muay Thai and Boxing for standing. What professional fighters use today is a mixture of all that.Its called Mixed Martial Arts. If you dont belive me, watch the UFC or PrideFc.

 

Now, since this is Comics, i will go with Kun Fu and Pro-Wrestling. Nothing can beat a rock botton!! if you smell what the Rock is cooking!!.

[Cerebro]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Do means "way".

[OddHat]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Definitely study whatever you think suits you. As Bruce said, you have to find what works for you, and throw out what doesn't work for you. As I said earlier, all arts have the same root.

 

Though I'm not sure about the fun part...That being said, as I mentioned earlier, I believe the real training is all psychological and mental. That's why I think you have to a serious frame of mind to learn self-defense.

 

I'm sure about the fun part. Enjoying your hobby, having fun, does not preclude taking your hobby seriously. I take my training reasonably seriously and I have a lot of fun with it.

 

I would also point out that the most useful self defense techniques involve learning how to recognize and avoid trouble. Breaking up the fights your drunk friends are having is a useful skill, but from a self defense point of view it's not as useful as avoiding the company of violent drunks.

 

Good luck with your training,

 

-Bob

[Starwolf]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

I have studied in several schools, including Tang Soo Doo, Tae Kwon Do, and Bujinkan (a form of what most Americans call ninjustu). Of them all only bujinkan had no "competition" style as it was intended and trained for full out life and death combat. IMO it is not proper to call this type of pratice a martial "art" as its only real use is combat, not philosophy, exhibition, ot competition.

[Cerebro]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Fantasy!.

[Susano]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

I spent around 14 years learning how to swing a sword in the SCA, does that count for anything?

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Now' date=' since this is Comics, i will go with Kun Fu and Pro-Wrestling. Nothing can beat a rock botton!! if you smell what the Rock is cooking!!.[/quote']

Oh hell yeah! What I wouldn't give to see some supers bust out some real moves. Imagine Colossus and the tombstone piledriver, Spidey using a frankensteiner, or Superman giving a backbreaker. Supposedly Ben Grimm is trained as a grappler, but you never see him use it.

[OddHat]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

I spent around 14 years learning how to swing a sword in the SCA' date=' does that count for anything?[/quote']

 

Ye, if you are attacked by an unarmed man (or a man with a sword) while you have a sword.

 

I once weight trained with a Chinese Olympic Fencer. Strongest woman I ever lifted with. I'm sure she could have defended herself very well barehanded.

[lemming]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

I'm sure about the fun part. Enjoying your hobby, having fun, does not preclude taking your hobby seriously. I take my training reasonably seriously and I have a lot of fun with it.

 

I would also point out that the most useful self defense techniques involve learning how to recognize and avoid trouble. Breaking up the fights your drunk friends are having is a useful skill, but from a self defense point of view it's not as useful as avoiding the company of violent drunks.

Very much so. I didn't have many problems before I started training, but after a few years of American Kenpo I had none. If you can avoid having to use the physical part of your training, everyone is better off.

[Dauntless]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Since I don't drink, I always get to be the designated sober

 

Unfortunately that sometimes meant I had to bail a friend's ass out of trouble (one of my friends was this small 5'6" Japanese guy that decided to pick a fight with this 6'3", about 220-230 athletic looking dude....and the big dude was sober). That's why I put the Awareness skill up in my list. If you can avoid trouble in the first place all the better. To paraphrase Sun Tzu , "100 victories in 100 battles does not make the greatest general, but rather the general that wins without fighting at all".

 

Now one thing I've really been asking myself is whether its better to learn one art very thoroughly, taking 5+ years to study it thoroughly, or to train in several arts for 2+ years. I've done the latter, and it's helped give me insight different approaches to combat. But one of my senseis also often said that it's better to have one PhD than two masters (meaning that it's better to truly master one art before you move on to something else). I can see his logic, but I know for certain that my training has helped me on occasion.

 

A great example of this was while I was learning Choy Lay Fut. Well, one day, the Tai Chi Sifu came early and asked my Sifu if he could spar with the other students (we shared our kwoon with the Tai Chi sifu and his student...they came after us). I saw the two sifus share a somewhat sinister grin at each other, and my sifu allowed the sparring to take place. The Tai Chi Sifu first sparred with our two most senior students and he absolutely humiliated them. It was actually funny as hell to watch because the Choy Lay Fut students had no clue what to do when the Tai Chi sifu would trap their arms or legs (sort of like Jeet Kune Do's sticky hands), and the Tai Chi sifu was throwing these guys all over the place. It got the point where one of the students even literally turned his back to the sifu and started running away

 

When it got to my turn, because I also had some Aikido background, I didn't care when he would trap my arm, because I would just either attempt an escape, or I'd try to do a reversal (which admittedly weren't that successful). Nevertheless, even though I was just a junior Choy Lay Fut student, I fared better than the advanced students because I wasn't afraid to get into grappling range with the Tai Chi sifu (our Choy Lay Fut Sifu kept screaming at the advanced students why they would retreat every time the Tai Chi sifu would attempt an offensive maneuver...so that's exactly what I did, I would do an irimi-style defensive manuever by going into his attacks rather than retreat).

 

But OTOH, I can see that learning an art through and through will give you many benefits too. In game terms I'm not really sure how to reflect this. I suppose you could give the eclectic fighter more techniques and the one art fighter higher CSL's. But it seems to me that there's a synergism involved in all the combat aspects that makes the sum of all those components greater than its sum.

[bubba smith]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

An Ch'i- because what superhero doesn't want to be able to beat people with any object they can get their hands on?

only one i can think of is the original DOVE from the hawk&the dove

[Vulcan]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Bubbamancy strikes again!

 

Late in the thread there was a question of 'master of one style or skilled in many.' The answer is likely another question: What do you intend to do?

 

10 years in a competion style will make you very good in the ring, but you might not fare so well in a street fight that comes at you from the style's weakness. And all styles have a weakness, have no doubt about that. (With the sole exception of Shinanju, but that's a fictional art anyway.)

 

On the other hand, 1 year each in 10 self-defense arts will give you a good broad basis for handling street fights. But get into the ring and you're gonna get your head handed back to you by your more specialized opponent.

 

10 years in a self-defense art will leave you better prepared for the street fight than the equivalent 'competition' fighter. But then there's still that pesky weakness problem...

 

There's no right or wrong answer to the question, just an endless debate. Because for every art (even 'untrained but experienced street fighter-fu') there is a fight that caters to the style - and a fight where that style will be nearly useless.

[Kirby]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Bubbamancy strikes again!

Instead of Wuxia Hero, I think his title should be "Thread Necromancer," or, going with the connotation of "bubba" he should do "Redneck Necromancer."

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Aikido only would work on a comic book' date='Kun fu wont even work there. Sure,against a man who dosent know how to fight,anything will work.[/quote']

 

::face palm::

 

Brazilian jujitsu,Luta libre and Grecoroman-wrestling for grappling and submissions. Muay Thai and Boxing for standing. What professional fighters use today is a mixture of all that.Its called Mixed Martial Arts. If you dont belive me, watch the UFC or PrideFc.

 

There's a lot more to a real fight than what you see in the UFC. In fact there are some bad habits that can be learned by training for this (or any) combative sport. I know cause I've trained in most of what you have listed above and then some

 

Most wrestling arts suck at multiple man encounters.

 

Most sportive arts provide minimal training for an armed encounter.

 

There's different psychological conditioning involved in stepping into the ring with someone who you are prepared for, is in your weight class and is not intending to maim you... and being in the street with some random psycho that is twice your size that want's to kill you and your loved ones.

 

In the UFC, no one will look down at you for quitting and tapping out. In a real fight, you may not have the option to back out once you realize your in over your head.

 

That said, the above arts definitely provide you with good tools and the training requires that you to develop a combative mindset, so if I had to place odds I'm betting on the full contact fighter over the tai chi chuan practitioner... at least until they are both about 70.

 

At that point, the Tai Chi guy is probably in better shape than the guy that beat the crap out of himself every night in his youth

[NestorDRod]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Scratch that. Buy a judge. Or a cop.

 

Money. The best superhero power ever.