I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trebuchet]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

O v O

 

I would've slapped the guy before walking out of his game. That's NOT the kind of thing you spring on a character in the middle of a game.

 

And a good slap upside the head may have done him some good.

 

Aw, what am I saying? There is no cure, for SOME people.

 

Ugh.

Guys don't get to slap other guys, Alice. That's a "girl thing." Although the thought of belting him did cross my mind on the way out.

 

Had it been an established character instead of one literally on her first (and thus only) adventure, and had he discussed it with me even indirectly prior to the game I might even have thought it an interesting look into the dark side and gone along with it. The character was married with two young kids in her Secret ID; how a superheroine would deal with being raped without discussing it with her husband (because he didn't know she was a super) or normal coworkers and friends might have led to some interesting roleplaying.

 

When asked later by a mutual acquantance why he'd done it, the GM replied "I just wanted to see what he'd let me get away with."

[nexus]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Guys don't get to slap other guys, Alice. That's a "girl thing." Although the thought of belting him did cross my mind on the way out.

 

Had it been an established character instead of one literally on her first (and thus only) adventure, and had he discussed it with me even indirectly prior to the game I might even have thought it an interesting look into the dark side and gone along with it. The character was married with two young kids in her Secret ID; how a superheroine would deal with being raped without discussing it with her husband (because he didn't know she was a super) or normal coworkers and friends might have led to some interesting roleplaying.

 

When asked later by a mutual acquantance why he'd done it, the GM replied "I just wanted to see what he'd let me get away with."

 

That is something you just don't do to a PC without some kind of warning and/or knowing the player VERY well. Particularly not in a SUPERHERO setting! This isn't Shock Horror or gritty noir its superheroes. Such things happen but their big events with an impact and long lasting effects, not something that happens the first "issue" a character shows up at, what sounds like, random. Even in truly Rusty Iron Age. The GM is a petty jerk and you righ to walk and its a tribute to your maturity that you didn't crack him one across the jaw on the way out. Most of the time I've heard stories like this is because the GM has, shall we say, issues with women, the player or both and was working them in some petty little way with his game.

[Trebuchet]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

See' date=' at least in the second article, his premise is that players enjoy things more when they think they've earned them, so it's part of your job description as GM to make them spend the majority of the game terrified of what will happen next. That way, when they win, they feel really good about themselves. And, if they lose, that'll just inspire them to try even harder next time.[/quote']Sounds like backpeddling on Wick's part to me. This is a superhero game; does anyone think Spider-Man or Captain America spend all their time "terrified of what will happen next"? How do you "win" when your DNPC is murdered in front of you? He bragged about the fact none of his players ever took DNPC again as a Disad; I don't see a lot of concern for roleplaying there.

 

In our campaign I never lose track of the fact that the player characters are the "title characters" in their comic. And while they've been hammered pretty hard and even defeated a couple of times, I never lose sight of the fact that the game is supposed to be about them and not me or my villains. There no need to be as hamhanded as Mr. Wick. There are much more interesting ways to use DNPCs against the players than killing them. It doesn't take any talent or ingenuity at all to kill them.

 

For example, the megavillain in my (or rather our) campaign is the Emerald Mage, an extremely powerful immortal sorcerer (350 point cosmic VPP) who currently rules Columbia and Venezuela and possesses a strict code of honor (He once broke off a fight with the heroes to heal an underling who had been critically injured). Once, our team leader was rendevousing with his intended bride in Monaco, and when Cyberknight in his Secret ID as billionaire philanthropist Eric Thorssen, went to meet his fiancé for lunch at a sidewalk cafe he found the Emerald Mage and one of his sorcerous apprentices seated at a table chatting merrily away with Cyberknight's fiancé. Seems the apprentice had been the fiancé's roommate in college, and the Emerald Mage poured on the Latin charm. That ended up with the fiancé inviting the EM and her old friend to the wedding. Of course poor Cyberknight couldn't do anything but grit his teeth and smile, especially since the Emerald Mage made it perfectly clear that he knew who he really was.

 

The look of stunned disbelief on Mentor's face as all that was happening in Monaco was utterly priceless. (Mentor plays Cyberknight in our campaign.) And the Emerald Mage, as the President of Columbia, even danced with the bride at the reception. The wedding in Norway was the social event of summer 2003. And it was both a lot more fun and more twisted than just killing our hero's (now) wife. The Emerald Mage has made it quite clear he's interested in Mrs. Thorssen for reasons other than petty vengeance...

[Haerandir]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sounds like backpeddling on Wick's part to me. This is a superhero game; does anyone think Spider-Man or Captain America spend all their time "terrified of what will happen next"? How do you "win" when your DNPC is murdered in front of you? He bragged about the fact none of his players ever took DNPC again as a Disad; I don't see a lot of concern for roleplaying there.

 

Oh, yes. That's what I meant about "going from reprehensible to misguided". The original tone of the article was just that he had fun hurting people. In the retraction, he attempts to make a case that he was doing it "for their own good". And, yes, I do think that he was furiously trying to save his reputation. He does make his living as a game designer, after all. Having hundreds of people telling their friends that you aren't to be trusted as a GM will not help you move units...

 

And, to be fair, I think he really did expect people to find his original article humorous, and to take it with a grain of salt. Granted, even with a whole box of salt, I still wouldn't game with him, but he's probably only about 85% as bad as he sounds in that article...

[Koshka]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Overall, Scifi Toughguy, this isn't too bad. It needs some tweaking, but it's a perfectly good "first character ever" -- heck of a lot better than mine was . (In my defense, I should point out that no one in the group had ever played Champions before, and that included the person helping me write my character.) I have a house rule of 3 XP for a decent character background, and yours would qualify.

 

Most of the stuff I would ask you (as a new player in my game) about has already been covered, but:

 

10 Psycho Limit: no addictive substances (alcohol, tabacco, drugs) (common, strong)

 

needs some clarification. Does the character hate addictive substances and refuse to take/use them? That might only be an uncommon -- the only time I can see it really coming into play is if the character needs medical help, and since lots of painkillers can be addictive....

[Trebuchet]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And' date=' to be fair, I think he really did expect people to find his original article humorous, and to take it with a grain of salt. Granted, even with a whole box of salt, I still wouldn't game with him, but he's probably only about 85% as bad as he sounds in that article... [/quote']85% of simpy awful is still awful.

 

He's just seen it necessary to prove something I thought all GMs already knew: You can always beat your players. Of course you can; you've got more points and infinite control of the game universe. Beating up your players is as admirable as bragging that the Green Bay Packers can whip a pee wee football team of eight-year-olds on the gridiron. Well, duh.

 

Do post that second article if you find it; I'd love to see how he tries to dig himself out of that pit...

[Mentor]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Here would be a real problem as a character. Your character only has 30 End, but would burn 9 End per phase using his most powerful attack, not counting any Running or Leaping used. In less than a turn, he'll keel over from exhaustion.

 

Also, 3 separate hand to hand attacks bought straight is very inefficient (unless you plan on using all 3 at the same time, but then End would kill you). I would suggest a multipower with 2 slots, and fold the claws/teeth into a single attack. Use the savings for some Reduced End.

 

50 Multipower 75 Active Restrainable (-1/2)

4 u 4d6 HKA Claws/Teeth 1/2 End (+1/4) Restrainable (-1/2) No Knockback (-1/4)

2 u +5d6 HA Tail Slap 0 End (+1/2) Restrainable (-1/2) Hand to Hand Attack (-1/2)

 

This costs 56 points instead of 74, and you use 6 End (including Str) for the Claws/Teeth, and 3 End (including Str) when using your 12d6 HA damage. With your 18 points savings, you can spend 9 on 1/2 End on Str, and still have 9 more to play with as you see fit (perhaps more slots on the multipower?).

Good catch, Gary. I was also especially concerned about the END situation. Having to stop and take a breather every three phases is sort of bad form for Supes.

[Haerandir]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

85% of simpy awful is still awful.

 

Well, cut me some slack here. I'm doing the best I can with what I've got to work with...

 

 

Do post that second article if you find it; I'd love to see how he tries to dig himself out of that pit...

 

I think it was the first installment of his "Playing Dirty" column for Pyramid, but I can't be sure, since I'm getting an error page every time I try to go the the SJGames web site.

[Mentor]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hey! You create my character YOURSELF!

Um, nice Owl. We were referring to the players previous campaign experience, not current campaign experience, Alice.

 

Uh, would you care for a delicious dead rodent?

 

(Sorry, SS.)

[Theron]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Heh. I hit the last page of this thread instead of picking up from where I left off last night. As soon as I saw some mention of "a hideous article", I knew it had to be Wick's thing on Champions.

 

Yes, the players appreciate their victories more when they feel like they earn them, but runing a campaign wherein every single session is the equivalent of Bruce Willis pulling broken glass out of his feet in "Die Hard" is not my idea of fun. It smacks of an elitist GM getting his jollies by seeing how much he can make people put up with.

 

I'm not one to usually tell folks their preferred form of gaming is wrongbadfun (apart from FATAL and RaHoWa), but it's definitely a style of play I'd want nothing to do with.

[Mentor]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Back to an old part of this discusion:

 

Am I the only GM who looks at what they are saving points for by being munchkiny to judge the character by?

 

In example if the Iron Man like Power Armor has spent his savings on a lot of teck skills, high society perks and skills (Like KS: Rich and Famous, contacts, etc...) I am alot less likely to screw with them, than if he has to have another 2d6 EB...

I cetainly hope you aren't the only one, JmOz. I think many GMs would agree with you. Buying the PC well rounded and with the equivelent of package deal skills would give a player and PC "Brownie points" in my mind.

 

The intention of the player is very often made clear in the character design and always clear after a few gaming sessions. I would have no compunction about retconning either penalties or rewards to a PC after a few gaming sessions experience with the character build. I would allow them the cahnce to retcon their own fix, should they prefer to do so. In fact, we have done just that in our campaign. If character did not structuraly turn out as the player intended because of an honest oversight or inexperience, we GMs had no problem with a few minor tweaks to get it right.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm surprised on one else says this, but CAVEAT: I come at this from the perspective of my campaign. Others' ground rules and averages may differ. Background snipped for ease of reference (good stuff, though).

 

Value Char Base Cost Total Roll Notes

 

35 STR 10 25 35 16 7d6 END 3

20 DEX 10 30 20 13 O/DCV 7

20 CON 10 20 20 13

20 BODY 10 20 20 13

12 INT 10 2 12 11 PER 11

8 EGO 10 -4 8 11 ECV 3

15 PRE 10 5 15 12 3d6

6 COM 10 -2 6 10

16 PD 7 9 16/41 16/41 PD (0/25 rPD)

15 ED 4 11 15/30 15/30 ED (0/15 rED)

5 SPD 3 20 5 3,5,8,10,12

16 REC 11 10 16

30 END 40 -5 30

48 STUN 48 0 48

 

Some issues in characteristcs. For a Super, your character will be very easily impressed (ie vulnerable to presence attacks) with 15 PRE and 8 Ego. It doesn't make the character himself very impressive either. I'd consider buying up PRE.

 

I'd consider dropping BOD to, say, 15 and buying CON up to, say, 28 or 30. This is a more typical build for the "Big Tough Guy". This would make you more resistant to Stunning effects. It would save 10 points on BOD, cost 20 (or 16) on CON, reduce the cost of ED by 2, reduce the cost of REC by 4, enhance your END by 20 (16) and reduce your STUN by 5 (7).

 

As noted by others, I would seriously reconsider your END overall, and selling back 10 END doesn't help that situation.

 

6 Running 6 0 6 END 1

8 Swimming 2 6 8 END 1

7 Leaping 7 0 7 7 forward, 3.5 upward

 

With no enhancements to movement, you may find your options limited in combat, especially with no ranged attacks. Nothing wrong with that - just be aware of this potential frustration.

 

SKILLS

Cost Skill

 

3 Bureaucratics 12-

6 Computer Programming (Networks, PCs) 12-

3 Tracking Power 11-

5 Beast Brawling (+1 HTH)

5 Cramming

8 Acounting PS: Acountant 16-

3 Stealth 13-

3 Streetwise 12-

7 Survival (marine surface, Urban) 13-

3 Shadowing 11-

 

I think others have commented on Tracking. Given your background, you probably want an Enhanced Senses ability rather than a skill for following trails. Also, you could shave some points on the PS - a 16- should be among the world's preeminent members of the profession.

 

POWERS

 

Cost Power

60 Scaly Skin: Armor 25PD/15/ED

 

Again, campaign limits vary, but I would generally not allow total PD into the 40's. Also, while it makes no difference mechanically, you could buy PD, ED and Damage Resistance rather than using Armor. If your game uses the Hero System benchmarks for standard Supers, damage classes average about 12 and defenses about 20 - 25.

 

30 Claws: HTH Killing 3d6 (5d6+1 w/ STR) (45 Active points); Restrainable (-1/2) END 4

10 Tail Slash: HTH Attack +3d6, does X 1.5 knockback (+3/4) (26 Active Points) HTH attack -1/2, extra time (delayed phase, no other actions -1/2), Restrainable (-1/2)

34 Bite: Killing Attack - HtH 4d6 (6d6+1 w/ STR) (60 Active Points), Restrainable (-1/2), no Knockback -1/4

 

As others have noted, the level of KA this character can do is extreme. As well, these attacks could be more economically grouped in a multipower to enhance point effectiveness. I might consider the following (based on a 12 - 14 damage class game expectation):

 

29 Multipower, 44 base, Restrainable (-1/2)

3 u Claws/Bite: 2d6+1 HKA (4 1/2d6 w/ STR), 1/2 END (+1/4) [2 END, +3 for STR]

2 u Tail Slash 5d6 Hand Attack, Increased Knockback (+3/4), Hand Attack (-1/2) [4 END, +2 for 25 STR or +3 for 35 STR]

 

There's no benefit having claws and a bite unless you expect to use them at the same time as separate attacks. I've modified the tail slash a bit. First, with limited movement anyway, a full phase action will be a real pain - especially as this is your only really effective non-killing attack. Second, with a 5d6 HA, you can add up to 5d6 from strength and do increased knockback on the total, or add 7d6 for a 12d6 attack, but not get the increased knockback.

 

By the way, Restrainable means it's pretty easy for someone to prevent use of your claws or tail attack by Grabbing, Entangling, etc. you. That holds you down to the 7d6 you get from Strength in those situations.

 

4 Tail: Extra Limbs (5 Active Points) Limited Manipulation (-1/4)

7 Regeneration: Healing Body 2d6 Can Heal Limbs (25 active points) No concious control , self only

 

6 Tracking w/ Smell/Taste group (10 Active Points); Requires Skill Roll (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)

 

THERE's that tracking scent! I would remove the skill above and RSR here (you need a perception roll anyway). I would also make that Concentration "Throughout use of power" for -1/2. Normal concentration applies only when you activate the power. That costs 1 point here, but saves the cost of the skill above. You might want to consider enhancing your sense of smell in other ways, for example making it Discriminatory, or even Targetting, either now or as you earn experience..

 

1/2 END on your strength would cost 9 points - a good purchase, as it would take the END from 3 to 1. At that point, you shuld be able to last a turn of combat without becoming exchausted (especially if you buy up CON and/or don't sell your END back).

 

DISADVANTAGES

 

Cost

10 Money: Destitute

 

Some games don't allow "money" disadvantages. Yours might. It's easy to bring it into play, so I would.

 

20 Distinctive features: Tail, Green and Scaly, 8' Tall, No Conceal, Always Noticed w/ Major reation, Commonly detectable

 

20 Pyscho Limit: prtoect innocents/helpless Common,total

15 Pyscho Limit: Hot Headed, Very Common, moderate

10 Social Limitation: Secret ID, Occasional, Major

 

How is a guy who looks like that going to protect a Secret ID?

 

5 Reputation: sewer homeless protector' date=' 11-, small group only[/quote']

 

Not realy a disadvantage, is it? If they're Innocents, isn't it covered in your Protective? Maybe he's more Protective of Homeless and Children?

 

10 Hunted: Viper 8-' date=' (More Power, NCI, Watched)[/quote']

 

I'm not sure why they would only Watch, rather than Hunt. Based on the nature of your background, I'd be inclined to call it a Mystery Hunted (15 or 20 points) based on background, but we use a lot of Mystery Hunteds in our games.

 

5 Custom: 2 Daughters' date=' Likes to keep tabs on them, watch from afar[/quote']

 

Why not DNPC's on 8-?

 

5 Vulnerability: Mental x 1.5 STUN Uncommon

 

Typical Brick - note that you will be very vulnerable to mentalists (but no one's good at everything!)

 

10 Hunted: Other alligator man in sewer 8-, As Powerful, Limited area, Harshly Punishment (this is for a game set in Vibora Bay)

 

30 Enraged: Berserk when little girl threatened (any that remind him) (uncommon) go 14-, recover 11- Berserk

 

When one goes berserk, the cause is atacked full-force. Once the target is down, the Berserk character will go after the nearesdt target - fairly likely to be the little girl. Note that this could be triggered by seeing a hostage situation on TV - the character then goes berserk and attacks the nearest bystander. I believe others have suggested Enraged as an alternative.

 

10 Psycho Limit: no addictive substances (alcohol' date=' tabacco, drugs) (common, strong)[/quote']

 

Probably not all that common as others have noted.

 

One thing I don't see in background or disad's - what will get this character involved with the other characters? Does he have any form of "heroic motivation"? Maybe some desire to do "good deeds", achieve some level of notoriety and public acceptance, which might finally allow him to redeem himself in the eyes of his children?

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Um' date=' nice Owl. We were referring to the players [b']previous[/b] campaign experience, not current campaign experience, Alice.

 

Uh, would you care for a delicious dead rodent?

 

(Sorry, SS.)

I'm kind of sensitive about the idea of Josh playing favorites with me. It's not why I like having him as my GM - I like having him as my GM 'cause he's a great storyteller, and is on OUR side (not MY side, OUR side). So the implication that I'm getting special treatment or trying to pull something ruffles my feathers a bit.

 

Guys don't get to slap other guys' date=' Alice. That's a "girl thing." Although the thought of belting him did cross my mind on the way out. [/quote']

I figured a guy would handle it differently. Being a girl, I could've gotten away with a slap. And since the whole purpose of a slap is humiliation, not pain, it'd be an appropriate retaliation. For me, anyway.

[Kirby]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wow. I just read through all of this thread. I'll put a cheap, shameless plug in for Champions page 81: Quick Superhuman Generator.

 

I'd ask first: What job does your character have in his/her secret ID? What hobby(ies) does he/she have? Then I'd go through the Superhuman Generator: Types and "Subypes" Table and for Combat Wombat would show him Speedster and for Limitation Lass, I'd show her Energy Projector (Artillery) or Energy Projector (Air Superiority) with emphasis on "Very Big Gun Wielder Set" for Primary Powers.

 

When it comes down to the personal skills, apply ones that would reflect their job & hobby.

 

But really, good luck to you on this.

[Trebuchet]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I figured a guy would handle it differently. Being a girl' date=' I could've gotten away with a slap. And since the whole purpose of a slap is humiliation, not pain, it'd be an appropriate retaliation. For me, anyway.[/quote']It was 16 or 17 years ago, so I'm pretty much over it now, but at the time I was absolutely furious. I never said a word, when the GM (and I use the term loosely) told me what was happening to my character, I simply closed my notebook, gathered up my dice, and walked out. But it's still my first example when I'm talking about GM malfeasance.

 

The sad thing is that there are still players in this buffoon's campaign.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wow. I just read through all of this thread. I'll put a cheap' date=' shameless plug in for [i']Champions[/i] page 81: Quick Superhuman Generator.

 

I'd ask first: What job does your character have in his/her secret ID? What hobby(ies) does he/she have? Then I'd go through the Superhuman Generator: Types and "Subypes" Table and for Combat Wombat would show him Speedster and for Limitation Lass, I'd show her Energy Projector (Artillery) or Energy Projector (Air Superiority) with emphasis on "Very Big Gun Wielder Set" for Primary Powers.

 

When it comes down to the personal skills, apply ones that would reflect their job & hobby.

 

But really, good luck to you on this.

Limitations Lass e-mailed him this morning with a revised version of her character. She trimmed some of the fat and reduced the limitations to balance out her character.

 

Without any major scene, yelling, or dramatic confrontation. I'm impressed.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Limitations Lass e-mailed him this morning with a revised version of her character. She trimmed some of the fat and reduced the limitations to balance out her character.

 

Without any major scene, yelling, or dramatic confrontation. I'm impressed.

 

It's nice to assume the worst and be wrong on occasion, isn't it?

 

One down. Good luck with the second.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I told the player with Independent tonight she had to get rid of it. I said we would grandfather the experience point different and she could pay off the points with a portion of her experience as I am now giving out about 2 more per session on average.

 

 

Am I to understand you're letting her keep all those powers without the Independent disad? If I was one of your other players I'd be jealous.

 

 

Let us know how this all turned out.

[Scifi_Toughguy]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I believe I should take the advice presented and get me own thread, enough thread jacking for me. Please, those who have commented on my character so far, continue on over to the new thread.

 

Deal with the problem child in the way that best suits your game and group.

[OddHat]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Guys don't get to slap other guys, Alice. That's a "girl thing." Although the thought of belting him did cross my mind on the way out.

 

Had it been an established character instead of one literally on her first (and thus only) adventure, and had he discussed it with me even indirectly prior to the game I might even have thought it an interesting look into the dark side and gone along with it. The character was married with two young kids in her Secret ID; how a superheroine would deal with being raped without discussing it with her husband (because he didn't know she was a super) or normal coworkers and friends might have led to some interesting roleplaying.

 

When asked later by a mutual acquantance why he'd done it, the GM replied "I just wanted to see what he'd let me get away with."

 

I agree with Nexus. That GM is lucky you didn't make him squeal like a pig right there and then. Good for you for getting out of that situation without throwing a punch.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Am I to understand you're letting her keep all those powers without the Independent disad? If I was one of your other players I'd be jealous.

 

 

Let us know how this all turned out.

Well, yes. I AM jealous, speaking as a player. But as I understand it, she cut points elsewhere to make up the difference. She brought down her speed and force field.

 

That's the way Josh told it to me, anyway.

 

This is getting to the point where, if I DON'T demand special treatment, I'm going to be the only one not twinking.

[Scifi_Toughguy]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Or maybe I fibbed. I can't get my revised character to post up in a new thread.

[AlHazred]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Or maybe I fibbed. I can't get my revised character to post up in a new thread.

How did you try to do it? If you're using Hero Designer, you can use the "Hero Boards" Export Template to generate HTML code; cut-and-paste it into a new thread and you're good to go.

 

If you're using a word processing program, it should also have an HTML format you can save it in.

[Scifi_Toughguy]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

How did you try to do it? If you're using Hero Designer, you can use the "Hero Boards" Export Template to generate HTML code; cut-and-paste it into a new thread and you're good to go.

 

If you're using a word processing program, it should also have an HTML format you can save it in.

 

I am using hero designer, but only the demo version, so no exporting for me. I put it in excell, because that was the next most organized option. However, copying and pasting from any format I have saved it in, txt, doc, whatever excell's suffix is, has resulted in an error approximately = to this: Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 15 seconds exceeded in /home/dans/www/herogame/forums/includes/functions_search.php on line 413

 

 

I've even tried adding it as an attatchment and no dice. I just copied and pasted the first one, so I dunno if I'm only allowed once or something...

[Ki-rin]

Re: I Give Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I just read this whole thread and noticed...

 

...The character generation in Squirrel's seems to be "tail wagging the dog"? Doesn't it make more sense for players to be forced to come up with a _GM approved concept first_ that suits the "feel" and power level of the campaign and _do game mechanics design afterwards_? This allows the GM to enforce that CBs be +very+ true to character concept.

 

IME that fixes most munchkin problems. It also forces players to think more about their characters as acting roles rather than a war gaming abstraction.

 

Above and beyond the blatant Rules Rapist stuff that others have already commented on (and that MUST go unless it's a "GM Special"), the biggest thing that stands out to me about both of the abusive CBs is that neither has a decent character conception to back up their game design choices.

 

"The Plow" or "Indendent Girl" might actually be interesting characters with a decent concept backing them and less abusive game design choices.