A request for examples in sourcebooks.

[tabascojunkie]

Something I would like to see in sourcebooks is, in addition to, or instead of, a package deal for a member of a race is an example of that race. Y'know, a typical Xenovore, a typical elf, etc..

 

As an example, Ben posted a "savage Xenovore" type over at SH Fandom, fully statted out.

 

Or is there a way to apply a package deal to a basic stat-line to arrive at a typical example? Sometimes abook will hhave sample characterthat are not necessarliy typical. These usually dont match up with the '+5 strength' or whatever is given in the PD. I realize I may be missing a very basic precept of HERO so anyone have any input, maybe something official from Mr. Long?

 

Thanks in advance.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

are you wanting ready made basic characters like thea archtype templates you see in Deadlands, Shadowrun, and D20 Traveller for example?

 

I would like to see something on that order myself, lemme finish up a couple of other projects I am knee deep in, and maybe I can work on some ideas

[MitchellS]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

A 13 str, 13 dex, 15 con, 13 body xenovore is a typical example just as a 10 str, 10 dex, 10 con, 10 body human is a typical example. Most xenovores will fall into the typical range. From their it's up to the players or GM to build upon the basic characteristics to create an above average example to represent experienced or advanced versions.There are several types listed in Alien Wars, IIRC.

[tabascojunkie]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

A 13 str' date=' 13 dex, 15 con, 13 body xenovore is a typical example just as a 10 str, 10 dex, 10 con, 10 body human is a typical example. Most xenovores will fall into the typical range.[/quote']

 

Okay, this is something I've always been a bit unclear on. If you take what a package deal includes, say +5 STR, +2 DEX, etc. and so forth, and add it to a base 10 stat across the board character,do you arrive at a typical member of this class, race, or whatever it is? Or do you add the PD stat values to whatever you were going to give the character anyway? (I just noticed I have a thing for really long sentences when typing but that's beside the point.)

 

Everyone please throw your copper in, I'm interested to know what you think.

[MitchellS]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

Okay, this is something I've always been a bit unclear on. If you take what a package deal includes, say +5 STR, +2 DEX, etc. and so forth, and add it to a base 10 stat across the board character,do you arrive at a typical member of this class, race, or whatever it is? Or do you add the PD stat values to whatever you were going to give the character anyway? (I just noticed I have a thing for really long sentences when typing but that's beside the point.)

 

Everyone please throw your copper in, I'm interested to know what you think.

It is the average number of the race. Xenovores are +3 str.That means an average xenovore is 13 str whereas an average human is 10 strength. Weaker ones can have less more healthy ones have more.

[austenandrews]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

I confess, I'm also mystified at the peculiar lack of example characters in the rules. Not that I need them personally - I've been playing this system most of my life - but if I were a new player, it would be a reasonably big sticking point for me.

[atlascott]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

I brought up exactly this point on another thread, and I agree with you 100%. I have played HERO on and off for over 10 years, and yes, I STILL would like some fulled-statted-out examples of races/creatures. I was very disappointed in the Alien Wars book for not giving me statted out Xenovores of the various castes, with nifty pictures next to each...

[tabascojunkie]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

Alien Wars in particular is where this thought comes from for me, and the Xenovores. I'd like to see statted out soldiers even if it's only a couple different types just to have a starting point.

 

One thing I did really like about the Viper book was that it had sample agents in the back.

[atlascott]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

Maybe it is part of the marketing plan, to release character books, and vehicle books for every genre. But when I pay for a huge genre book, i would like to think I am going to get a good amount of fully-statted-out characters as well as lots of statted out equipment and ships. Im pretty disappointed in Star Hero for this reason, and in Fantasy Hero for its lack of a definite treatment of magic and a meagre list of pre-costed-out spells.

 

This is meant as constructive criticism of a game system I really enjoy and have followed over the years.

 

The 5th Edition rulebooks has sort of a soulless feeling to it, and alot of the art is sub-par, or recycled art of different styles which do not mesh well together. It also has an embarassingly-high amount of errata, and no, I dont plan on re-purchasing the same thing for another $45 bucks. For those who dispoute the above, just compare the comprehensive 4th Edition rulebook to the 5th Edition.

 

Fantasy Hero is indeterminate and fluffy--it could accompish its goal with 1/3 fewer pages and provide more details, exmaples, and concretes, like statted out equipment, characters, etc.

 

Star Hero, Alien Wars and the Terran Empire. Star Hero is very fulffy with very little useful content as a percentage of pages in the book. All three books are self-referential, and in retrospect, it was unnecessary, other than for trying to get you to buy all three (which I did, as a fan of the genre). These are very fluffy as well, and the art is inconsistent in style as well, making for a bit of a disjointed experience in reading the book. As campaign books, they really do not impress or envelope the reader in the particular campaign world they purport to build. The settings feel extremely generic, the histories implausible and a bit boring (Alien Wars is better in this regard). I wouldnt want to run a campaign in either of these world without so much tweaking as to make them completely unrecognizable. One start in AW would be to actually make the Xenovore individually more impressive. An average 13 strength for the species? Why were we afraid again?

 

I know, this is a pretty negative review for someone who is a fan. Just keep in mind, HERO games has my money, and I haven't asked for a refund. Im just hesitant to buy any additional source material--I'll generate my own--and stick with buying rules. Does anyone else share these criticisms? Or am I having a bad day?

[MitchellS]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

An average 13 strength for the species? Why were we afraid again?

Well let me see, humans have 10 body, 2 pd & ed, and 3 cv on average. Xenovores 13 body, 6 pd, 4 ed, and 4 cv on average. Xenovores do 1d6+1 killing with their bare hands. Humans do 2d6 normal which on average will do 1 stun to a xenovore. That's before we even start to get into the idea of their technology, the number of them, their warbeasts, etc. And the above is just an average, common, xenovore.

[MitchellS]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

BWT, I forgot to mention the +14 pd +14 ed armor battle-armor.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

Actually, the Average Person in Hero (according to the templates in the rulebook) starts out with 8s in Primary Characteristics. Only exceptional individuals, like PCs, start at 10. If those Xenovore stats are for comparable average members of their race, that's significant superiority. It also justifies much superior individual Xenovores, just as human characters can greatly excell the norm.

 

That said, I do agree that more prewritten characters would be useful for most of the current setting books - they provide benchmarks and templates for the GM's own creations, and makes it quicker and easier to build interesting encounters. I get the feeling from some of the titles of books proposed for future publication that DoJ intends to produce separate NPC books, but a few more additions to the setting books themselves wouldn't detract from those IMO.

[MitchellS]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

Actually' date=' the Average Person in Hero (according to the templates in the rulebook) starts out with 8s in Primary Characteristics. Only exceptional individuals, like PCs, start at 10.[/quote']

No offense meant but I personally feel that is a copout answer. You could just as easily say the xenovore package should be added to the average person's beginning characteristic of 8 rather than the noteworthy normal beginning level of 10.

[atlascott]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

All I really meant was that Xenovores really dont invoke terror, with that big 13 strength. With a 13 strength and a bowie knife and body armor, a tough trooper is the equivalent to a Xenovore! Gimme a bio-tech monster killing machine with a 20 strength--now Im afraid that the bastard is going to bash right thru any door I might be hiding behind, maybe throw a car at me or something. If my live-saving technology fails me, it will rip me apart. A monster who, for all intents and purposes, is so superior to man than no normal man stands a chance against one in hand to hand. THIS is the kind of troop that decimates human populations across 100's of worlds. I need the emotionless invaders to have a massive advantage, not a marginal one. For 2 reasons: it keeps the good-evil line nice and clear and motivating for the PC's to figure out a way to beat them 'against all odds' and it makes every victory against this impossible opponent more heroic and significant.

[MitchellS]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

All I really meant was that Xenovores really dont invoke terror' date=' with that big 13 strength. With a 13 strength and a bowie knife and body armor, a tough trooper is the equivalent to a Xenovore! Gimme a bio-tech monster killing machine with a 20 strength--now Im afraid that the bastard is going to bash right thru any door I might be hiding behind, maybe throw a car at me or something. If my live-saving technology fails me, it will rip me apart. A monster who, for all intents and purposes, is so superior to man than no normal man stands a chance against one in hand to hand. THIS is the kind of troop that decimates human populations across 100's of worlds. I need the emotionless invaders to have a massive advantage, not a marginal one. For 2 reasons: it keeps the good-evil line nice and clear and motivating for the PC's to figure out a way to beat them 'against all odds' and it makes every victory against this impossible opponent more heroic and significant.[/quote']

Drop 4 naked xenovores into a farming colony of 100 men, women, and children on planet Faroon III and watch 3 of them walk out and report mission success, and then tell me how fear-inspiring xenovores are.

 

The point which is trying to be made here is that a 150 point PC is a match for 2 or 3 "average" xenovores [just like a 5th level fighter can take out 2-3 orcs easily in d20]. A 0 to 20 point average person is easy food to them. What inspires the fear is how the 99% of the population react to the xenovore overpowering threat, not how the 1% of players and other heroes react to them.

[atlascott]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

But after a few xenovores have eaten some kids and weaklings, a few of those farmers are going to bust out with their coyote-busters or scythes and do some fighting. Those 4 Xenovores arent going anywhere but into the ground as fertilizer.

 

Drop 4 commandoes with 15 strength, tech and body armor in the middle of an unsuspecting Xenovore encampment, and you're going to have alot of dead Xenovores.

[MitchellS]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

I think you're under a great many misconceptions. First off, xenovores aren't stupid mindless eating machines. That have human level intellect and would kill everyone. They wouldn't stop for lunch. Second, those scythes and coyote-busters are not evening doing 11/2d6 damage, and that's assuming the farmers have the appropriate WF and can use them in combat. If not, it's about a 7- chance for them to hit a xenovore. Not good odds.

 

Now as for your 4 commandoes example, yes, give them each a K-88 and they are going to kill 1 xenovore with each 2 hits. So assuming 2 speeds they kill 5-6 xenovores a turn. I seriously doubt they last more than 2 turns, unless you're assuming these are PC level commandoes with 100+ points.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks.

 

No offense meant but I personally feel that is a copout answer. You could just as easily say the xenovore package should be added to the average person's beginning characteristic of 8 rather than the noteworthy normal beginning level of 10.

 

No offense taken. I wasn't even thinking about packages, though. I only meant to compare the "stats" for the majority of humanity with the majority of Xenovores. The latter are clearly significantly superior.

 

As far as Xenovores being a threat, well, four elite commandoes up against four elite-caliber Xenovores will likely have a much harder time of it. The Xenovores do also have powerful warships and biotech weapons in addition to their natural abilities. IMO, though, they shouldn't be a totally overwhelming threat to mankind; we did win the war with them, after all.