OddHat Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Ever woken up with a hand asleep? Or had you arm wrenche hard enough that you lost fwwling in your hands? I see Inviibility to Touch as working that simply; you press your hand against something, your arm stops moving, but you can't feel what you're touching. The whole People Bump Into Me / Don't Bump Into Me thing I see as a special effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? SEP field is definitely not mental illusions/mind control. It takes no consideration of the strength of your willpower, it is like an optical illusion: you can not see what it really is until you have it pointed out to you, or if you've seent he trick before. Definitely invisibility with a custom 'NND' type limitation and an activation roll (albeit a high one - sometimes you notice the thing accidentally - out of the corner of your eye....) There's nothing wrong with invisibility to touch, it just isn't very useful, like invisibilty to taste. Don't get yourself muddled with the mass/volume thing, just think of the base effect - if you touch it do you detect it? Wrapping your arms around it is something different entirely - your own kinesthetic sense isn't fooled - you know your arms are not coming together. As to the mass thing, well, matter of taste, but if someone with invisibilty to touch jumps on your head you may not realise they are there, but you do know your knees are buckling. Kinesthetic sense again. No one suggest invisibilty to that, eh? And whoever mentioned invisibilty to memory had better edit theior post to put lots more smileys in to show it was just a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? I don't see how you can use Invisibility to simulate an SEP since the SEP does things that Invisibility is not capable of doing. It has to be based on a mental power because nothing else is capable of encompassing the effects. And 15 dice or so would be enough to affect any human character regardless of willpower/EGO. Ultimately, I think this may be one of those, we have to agree to disagree on things because this conversation hasn't really gone anywhere the last couple of exchanges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just A Guy Name Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Hmm. Not to stray far OT: What's the standard ruling on Invisibility (Sight) vs light-based attacks? Is there a consensus opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Hmm. Not to stray far OT: What's the standard ruling on Invisibility (Sight) vs light-based attacks? Is there a consensus opinion? If you want your invisibility to protect you from lasers, buy defenses to simulate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just A Guy Name Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? If you want your invisibility to protect you from lasers' date=' buy defenses to simulate that. [/quote']Thanks, OH. Just to be clear though: Is that the assumption most gamers go by? It does seem to represent the philosophy of design in 5E (don't have 5ER), but I can't seem to find an actual ruling to confirm it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? And all this time I thought a SEP field was a plot device used to explain why an Earthman and an alien can jump on board a spaceship and take off in the middle of a cricket game. It's no more a Power than a hyperintelligent shade of blue is an actual character or race, and have just as much chance of writeing one up as you would the other. If you wanted to try, it really depends on exactly what you wanted it to do. If you just want to be unnoticed, Invisible works just fine. If you wanted to cause other people to avoid you, in addition to not seeing you, combine Invisible with Images (something that people would walk around or avoid). You could also use Mind Control with LOTS of dice and a bit of area, but don't lose track of the effect. Tecnically you can buy Mind Control to make people fall down or move across the room, but a Martial Throw can work just as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Thanks' date=' OH. Just to be clear though: Is that the assumption most gamers go by? It does seem to represent the philosophy of design in 5E (don't have 5ER), but I can't seem to find an actual ruling to confirm it.[/quote'] The clue to the "actual ruling" is in the write-up of the Invisibility power - which has absolutely no mention of protecting you from any damage whatsoever. Therefore, you may conclude that Invisibility will protect you from no damage whatsoever. Be it light, lasers, or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just A Guy Name Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Therefore' date=' you may conclude that Invisibility will protect you from no damage whatsoever. Be it light, lasers, or otherwise.[/quote']Good enough. Then there really should not be much consternation over Invis (Touch). Working from the analogue of Sight, Touch Invis. could be simulated with a tweaked form of Desolid (and in fact, that is my preferred method), but it seems that the standard assumption (that it only affects perception) means that the text saying that it should normally be built as Desolid, is incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? See, thin thing is AA, I think this is a beautiful example of how to use Mental Illusions. Cosmetic changes to settings includes: changing colors; making friends look like (but not act like) enemies; minor changes to a person's or object's appearance. Instead of seeing Lucky's character, you see some random person he would want to go around. That's PERFECT and it is cheaper too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Instead of seeing Lucky's character' date=' you see some random person he would want to go around. That's PERFECT and it is cheaper too. [/quote'] Depends. With Invisibility you're invisible to everyone, period. With Mental Illusions you've got to consider AE, IPE and # of dice, all sufficient to affect, say, a crowded city intersection or hotel lobby, plus enemies who may have higher-than-average EGO. If you want to go the "looks like something else" route, I'd probably use Shape Shift instead. You get the "affects everyone, period" advantage of Invisibility plus it's cheaper and can't be seen through like Images. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? I'd do a SEP effect as Invisibility to Sight, Sound, Touch, Not While Attacking (-1/2). Maybe with another limit or two reflecting the other ways of seeing through it (May be Seen By Those Who Know It Is There, etc). The issue of "Why don't people bump into it" seems like a special effect. People just don't notice bumping into the Invisible-to-touch thing for the same reason that superspeed doesn't set your clothes on fire; that's how it works in that genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? I was thinking invisibility to touch would be a great ability for a pickpocket. The mark never even knows you have your hand in his pocket. Or for a truly forgettable lover. "Oh! You're done already?" More seriously, and on a tanget to this thread - would "Invisible to touch" be appropriate for a martial artist whose attacks are so fast and accurate his foes doesn't even immediatly realise he's been hit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Or for a truly forgettable lover. "Oh! You're done already?" More seriously, and on a tanget to this thread - would "Invisible to touch" be appropriate for a martial artist whose attacks are so fast and accurate his foes doesn't even immediatly realise he's been hit? Judging from Steve's comments on Invisible extra limbs, I'd say that this would be better handled with IPE for STR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Judging from Steve's comments on Invisible extra limbs' date=' I'd say that this would be better handled with IPE for STR.[/quote'] That was what I was thinking about, actually - invisible power, not invisible attacker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Well, i was struck by a character concept that could take Invisibility to Touch (at least, I assume so, since the bruise came outta nowhere...). A ghost. Sort of. He's not intangible, because if you wave your hand through him, it hurts him. If you put him in a room he can't 'tunnel' out of, he's stuck. He's a physical being, he just doesn't have enough substance to be felt (well, you get the 'cold, chill' feeling, but that's hot/cold sense). Would this be appropriate for invisibility to Touch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertg97 Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? I tend to see Invisibility to Touch as someone running there hand across the the char not feeling anything, but still being subject to newtonian physics i.e. application of force e.g you push the char you dont feel it but they are still affected by it . while desolid means you are not subject to force (unless bought with affects desolid). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? you forgot to buy Invisibility to Thread Necromancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice9 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Personally, I think Invisibility to Touch makes sense in the right circumstances. And while not the only way to represent this ability, it is a valid way to do so. However, I'll note that the Mental Illusions (feels more appropriate than Mind Control to me) route does not have to be hideously expensive. Consider: Nowhere Man - Mental Illusions 1d6, Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2), Penetrating (+1/4), Reduced END (0 END; +1/2), Continuous (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4), Area of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Megascale (1" = 1km; +1), 26 active points; Set Effect ("I'm not here, anything I do was a coincidence or didn't happen"; -1/2), 17 real points. Now this is potentially an extremely potent ability - in fact, I would probably require more significant limitations if someone wanted to use this in a game. But it's certainly affordable. And while it doesn't quite cover a ship appearing suddenly (it will be at least 2 turns before even an average person is affected), it covers movement at any normal speed just fine because of the huge area. Incidentally, I wouldn't quite call this cheese yet. Bump the Penetrating to x2+ and the Megascale to planetary, and it most certainly is. But in it's current form, it is defeatable (with difficulty), suitable for a "puzzle villain" as long as they aren't very potent in other aspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? I use invisibility to touch, not to prevent you from feeling me punch you, but to prevent things like pressure plates in a floor or certain kinds of motion detectors from triggering alarms/traps. Invisibility to touch doesn't prevent sand from showing your footprints any more than invisibility to sight prevents me from seeing an object move when you pick it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? I use invisibility to touch' date=' not to prevent you from feeling me punch you, but to prevent things like pressure plates in a floor or certain kinds of motion detectors from triggering alarms/traps. Invisibility to touch doesn't prevent sand from showing your footprints any more than invisibility to sight prevents me from seeing an object move when you pick it up.[/quote'] I agree, though in general Invisibility to Touch is in the 'yeah, you CAN do it, but I can't imagine why you would' category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? I agree' date=' though in general Invisibility to Touch is in the 'yeah, you CAN do it, but I can't imagine why you would' category.[/quote'] Maybe they're Genesis fans. JoeG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Re: Invisible to Touch Group? Maybe they're Genesis fans. JoeG *slap* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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