CrosshairCollie Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? The lamest concept? How about the android Captain Marvel whose main power was to split into pieces at his joints? "SPLIT!" Unfortunately, I have to spread some rep around first, so you get a giant word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? If I were to give an award for a 'Huh?!' character concept in this manner, Angel wouldn't have been it. Flying's useful, especially when you add in all his other avian characteristics (keen eyes, almost silent gliding) ... which makes him a damn fine scout and spy. No ... mine would have to go to Matter-Eater Lad. (Alternately, Arm-Fall-Off Boy, but he was designed for a comedy campaign.) Tenzil-Kem, Senator for the Defense!!! Ahem.. I actually have a friend that can lecture for a good 90 minutes on why Matter Eater Lad is in fact the most powerful superbeing ever to exist. I'd be tempted to suggest Leap-Frog as pretty useless, at least originally. Having Superleap and no other powers made him a big target until they tried to make him semi-viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehreval Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Pshaw. Shows what you know. What's going to happen when you got Angel on your team instead of Matter-Eater Lad -- and you have to get rid of the Miracle Machine? Or you're trapped with Sugyn puffing into the giant pipe organ in Evillo's Hell? Angel's wings and megabucks gonna help you then? I think not! (although I'll give you Arm-Fall-Off Boy) Bouncing Boy. His powers were that he could pump himself up into a ball and bounce real good. Or how about These from the Legion of *Substitute* Heroes: Stone Boy, who can turn himself to stone. Or Chlorophyll Kid, who can accelerate the growth of plants. Ah, the good old days. -- Ehreval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Bouncing Boy. His powers were that he could pump himself up into a ball and bounce real good. Or how about These from the Legion of *Substitute* Heroes: Stone Boy, who can turn himself to stone. Or Chlorophyll Kid, who can accelerate the growth of plants. Ah, the good old days. Color Kid. "Surrender, miscreant, or I'll turn you purple!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Infectious Lass. 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Bouncing Boy. His powers were that he could pump himself up into a ball and bounce real good. Yeah, I used to think like you did. Until someone set me right. Bouncing Boy's powers are there only to justify his real character concept: "My girlfriend is Triplicate Girl". Timber Wolf or Ultra Boy giving him grife about how lame his powers are? "My girlfriend is Triplicate Girl." Three. Three girlfriends in one! Bestest character concept evar. (even bestester than Angel, winged playboy millionaire). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? I just got a new answer to which superhero I wish I was... If I couldn't be Spider-Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Color Kid. "Surrender' date=' miscreant, or I'll turn you purple!"[/quote'] Hey! As a DC character, he's insanely powerful. Not creative enough, sure, but insanely powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? I SO want to disagree. I always thought Angel was tres cool. I liked him so much that I based my first Champions character, in part, on him. However, I really can't. He wasn't very impressive from a super-power point of view was he? But he is not alone. Hawkgirl (and Hawkman) have a similar schtick...I mean give Angel a stick, a mace or a sword and they are pretty much the same. IIRC, Aquaman wasn't all that fly to begin with either. Aquaman can breathe underwater and talk to fish! Ohhhhhh. There is something to envy. Forge was kind of the Reed Richards sans rubberiness, at least in the beginning. Wolverine was, originally, as we found out through flashbacks and isolated story lines, nothing more than a guy who healed fast. Heroes are more than superpowers. Especially in comics. In fact, I tend to think some of the low-powered, non-flashy superheroes are more interesting. In the first Story that Wolverine showed up in (The Hulk) all he had was a pair of Gloves that had Claws. He was less then impressive. Still is if you ask me. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? In the first Story that Wolverine showed up in (The Hulk) all he had was a pair of Gloves that had Claws. He was less then impressive. Still is if you ask me. A. THere was a time, IMO, that Wolverine was cool. It was when he was just entering the badass faze. He had overcome his berserker rages to some degree and was becoming something of a Samurai ( his limited series)...then, Oversaturation. Every comic had him popping up. Then Weapon X gave him an unbelievably complex and overwrought origin without ever explaining anything and gave writer cart blanche to do what they will with his past and claim they were repressed memories. Now, he annoys me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupus Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? In the first Story that Wolverine showed up in (The Hulk) all he had was a pair of Gloves that had Claws. He was less then impressive. Still is if you ask me. A. Yeah, it was a big surprise, when he first took off his gloves in X-Men and the team realised they were part of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Hey what about "The Toad" ! Not the one in the "X-Men" movies but the one in the original comics who seemed to spend all his time leaping around in the background and heaping undeserved praise on "Magneto" ! Pretty useless as originally written (Yet another of Stan Lee's half thought out character concepts !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Hey what about "The Toad" ! Not the one in the "X-Men" movies but the one in the original comics who seemed to spend all his time leaping around in the background and heaping undeserved praise on "Magneto" ! Pretty useless as originally written (Yet another of Stan Lee's half thought out character concepts !) And yet every major Marvel hero of the time was "co"-created with Stan Lee. How many iconic (as in SpiderMan/Hulk/Fantastic Four/X-Men caliber) heroes of the 1960s were created by Ditko or Kirby without Stan Lee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? And yet every major Marvel hero of the time was "co"-created with Stan Lee. How many iconic (as in SpiderMan/Hulk/Fantastic Four/X-Men caliber) heroes of the 1960s were created by Ditko or Kirby without Stan Lee? Think about how many characters Stan created on a monthly basis in the early '60's. He basically plotted every Marvel book, and there was a supervillain every month, in every book. All things considered, he's got a pretty good batting average, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Think about how many characters Stan created on a monthly basis in the early '60's. He basically plotted every Marvel book, and there was a supervillain every month, in every book. All things considered, he's got a pretty good batting average, in my opinion. I whole-heartedly agree. A whole lot of people have accepted what seems to be an implausible position that he just exploited the "real" creators, the artists. Just because the guy was editor and powerful in the industry doesn't mean he needed to rob anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? I whole-heartedly agree. A whole lot of people have accepted what seems to be an implausible position that he just exploited the "real" creators' date=' the artists. Just because the guy was editor and powerful in the industry doesn't mean he needed to rob anyone.[/quote'] Read Kirby's early '70s DC work, compare it to the first 100 issues of Fantastic 4, and ask yourself what came from where. I believe the designs may well have been Kirby's, but Stan Lee brought them to life. [RUMOUR: Jack created the Silver Surfer because he looked cool flying around Galactus. Stan took the visual and made him a character. I can believe this.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Read Kirby's early '70s DC work, compare it to the first 100 issues of Fantastic 4, and ask yourself what came from where. I believe the designs may well have been Kirby's, but Stan Lee brought them to life. [RUMOUR: Jack created the Silver Surfer because he looked cool flying around Galactus. Stan took the visual and made him a character. I can believe this.] I've read a "history of comic books" book that has an account of a witness to the creation of the character. According to the witness, it was very much a collaborative effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? How much say in the writing did the artist have ? Not much I suspect ! It was the way "The Toad" was written that made him a lousy character and for that we have to blame Lee ! Interestingly in his collection of Essays on comics "But I Digress" current comic writer Peter David makes the claim that ALL of the older comic characters were the creation of the WRITER with the artist just coming along later and following instructions; the one exception that he gives is "The Silver Surfer" ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HewhoisMatt Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? For when they were made they X-men were very cool, I mean get a clue THE GUY COULD FREAKING FLY! That was a huge deal back then almost no hero could do that at the time. By the early 80s when I started reading X-men I thought they were all pretty lame. If you took most comics from today back to the 60s-70s readers would hold a book burning and likely stone you to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? How much say in the writing did the artist have ? Not much I suspect ! It was the way "The Toad" was written that made him a lousy character and for that we have to blame Lee ! Interestingly in his collection of Essays on comics "But I Digress" current comic writer Peter David makes the claim that ALL of the older comic characters were the creation of the WRITER with the artist just coming along later and following instructions; the one exception that he gives is "The Silver Surfer" ! The Toad was effective at stroking Magneto's ego, much more trustworthy to carry out instructions than the rest of the team, and had movement capabilities that allowed him to get out of Dodge and carry out last minute instructions. I think the Toad was fine for what he was designed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Strange that we haven't had a similar thread on the more recent Nathan Petrelli from the Heroes TV show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pól Ruadh Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Honestly, this is the kind of idea that really comes from a lack of creativity. There's a lot more to a memorable and interesting character than a power-set, or looking at them as a bunch of stats. One of my favourite characters ever is Wildcat... whose superpower is that he's a boxer. So Angel can fly and buy stuff, so that means he'd be useless as a character in a superhero RPG? Yeah, 'cos the short hairy Canadian reeking of sweat and cigar smoke is gonna get you into the swanky party at the Latverian Embassy. 'Cos the guy with exploding playing cards is gonna catch the DNPC falling out of the helicopter. A great RPG character is more than just an anonymous bunch of stats, and a great comic character is more than just the sum of his superpowers. A bit of creativity goes a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? If I were to give an award for a 'Huh?!' character concept in this manner, Angel wouldn't have been it. Flying's useful, especially when you add in all his other avian characteristics (keen eyes, almost silent gliding) ... which makes him a damn fine scout and spy. No ... mine would have to go to Matter-Eater Lad. ( To quote Bruce Banner from the movie "Don't make me hungry. You won't like me when I'm hungry.":eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedifensor Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? The original Angel was actually a bit tougher than other people have been giving him credit for. He's definitely a speedster with martial arts - he's had extensive combat training, as evidenced by the early danger room sessions. His training focused heavily on defense and dodging - Professor X usually had him going through some insane obstacle course, which he did flawlessly. If I had to write him up to be competitive with the other X-Men, I'd do the following. * 25 STR (based on his Wikipedia entry, he's at top human ability, which makes a 25 feasible) * 26 or 29 DEX, as he could dodge even better than Beast. Definitely the highest DEX character on the original team * Movement-based Martial Arts (every maneuver has the FMove property) with extra damage classes (and/or +velocity/5 to damage). Most maneuvers would give a bonus to DCV, making it so the average foe would only hit him on an 8- roll. * Very high combat move. I wouldn't buy many multiples of noncombat move past the free x2, but I would give him 25" or 30" combat Flight. Maybe even give him the advantage of No Turn Mode, since he could basically turn on a dime. * Enhanced Senses (Sight) * 10 or 15 nonresistant PD and ED (tough enough to fly at high speeds, resistant to cold at high altitude), with a slight amount of resistant PD and ED from his standard-issue X-Men costume. Maybe 20 PD and 20 ED nonresistant (including 5/5 resistant) when in costume. * Some sort of multipower for his various combat tricks, such as the wing buffet. Combined with his noncombat skills and wealth, I don't see a problem making him as an effective 350-point character. Not as flashy as the other X-Men, but it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal'El Wayne Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever? Remember, Angel's blood heals any wound it touches. Don't ask me why, it just does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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