Musings on Random Musings

[zornwil]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I used Bruno as an example of a person who developed theories as opposed to testing experiments to arrive at "knowledge".

 

According to Ramon Mandoza (the author of the book I have), Copernicus' big thing was saying that the Earth revolved around the Sun rather than the Sun revolving around the Earth. In other words the existing model of the age was used to was that the Earth was the centre of the heavens and the planets, the stars and the constellations revolved around the Earth. Copernicus said "not so" which inferred that Earth wasn't "special"; the 'intellectuals' in the clergy really thought that God had set it up that "they" were 'special', heliocentrism destroyed that reasoning. This is one reason (the main one?) why the Church was averse to the heliocentrism. Sorry for the long-windedness.

 

back to Bruno: He extended heliocentrism by correctly theorizing that the Sun wasn't the centre of the universe either. He thought that there was no centre, the universe was ascentric. This was at the time a radical departure from the new doctrine of heliocentrism.

 

You may be interested in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno#Bruno.27s_cosmology

 

Agree, that philosophical theory involves a lot of speculation, which is very different to using the scientific method.

 

Presently was are having difficulty testing String Theory, not much difference.

 

I'm using that as a generalisation and using a broad brush. It is a comment that science as captured the mainstream imagination as the delineator on 'truth' -- anything not 'science' is held up for ridicule.

 

Upon further reflection, as philosophy is different to science what I'm after is that they both complement each other as equal partners working towards the same goals. As science was birthed from philosophy and uses a lot of philosophy (eg metaphysics -- cosmology and onotology -- logic, and epistemology come to mind). These areas can give science the support it needs and give science new tools to help it.

 

After research on wikipedia, it appears that this as already happened -- how come I didn't get the memo. The dude Karl Popper has 'revised' the scientific method, philosophy is supporting science. My argument is that scientists get the mainstream attention nowadays and philosophers don't. To me this implies that there has been no 'name' philosophers in the 20th century. History records otherwise, don't get me wrong, but the mainstream name recognistion isn't there. To a 'normal' person on the street, compare Einstein or Stephen Hawking to Bertrand Russell or Ludwig Wittgenstein; the later two would be met by a "huh". Philosophy needs a pin-up (a sexy one would be nice) like Einstein. Its last one was a long time ago.

I think Sartre is pretty well known - less so than Einstein but probably not much different than Hawking.

[lemming]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Exactly. Even leaving religion out of the equation' date=' compare the size of the Science section in your local book store to the New Age/Occult section. We don't exactly live in an Age Of Reason.[/quote']

Well, I wouldn't make that conclusion based on the size of the sections in a bookstore. What can be more varied in so called truth?

[L. Marcus]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

A better measure of Popularity of Science Resp. New Age/Occult might be the number of magazines on either subject. Over here, I have yet to see a single New Age-y magazine on the newsstands.

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Oops. I got Bruno & Copernicus reversed chronologically. My bad.

 

True `nuff. Maybe the question is where do you draw the line between philosophy and theoretical science? Both include a certain amount of speculation' date=' but the ends are somewhat different. Certainly things like ethics & logic fall under philosophy. But metaphysics is a much grayer area. [/quote'] Might be best to ask an expert, like a professional astronomy teacher; in other words Cancer.

 

Looking at wikipedia, there is a clear separation with metaphysics. But to confuse the issue, I'l quote Paul Davis from New Scientist 30th June 07, top of page 30:

 

Science works because the universe is ordered in an intelligible way. The most refined manifestation of this order is found in the laws of physics, the fundamental mathematical rules that govern all natural phenomena. One of the biggest question of existence is the origin of those laws: where do they come from, and why do they have the form that they do?

 

The second paragraph is also relevant, but is too much typing. The passage I quote above, begins the article and to me is a question for philosophy, not science. I'm still yet to read the article, so I can comment on it, it is just that reading it this morning, I liked it and thought it useful is answering your question.

 

Ignoring for a minute the fact that you think Einstein was sexy

ha haa. I said Philosophy needs 1) a pin-up, 2) it would be helpful if this pin-up was also sexy.

 

I think a lot of that has to do with three things.

1) The way philosophy is taught in schools is, for the most part, dreadfully dull.

2) A Philosophy degree sounds cool, but may not be as readily helpful in your job search as a Physics degree. Would you like fries with that?

3) And finally, I think most people these days just don't want to think that hard. They don't want to think about science either, but at least the latest scientific discovery is usually easier to (mis)represent in a sound bite, a graph, and a picture of something interesting. Or at least a Star Trek analogy. Harder to do that with the latest breakthrough in epistemology...

Agree with #1. About #2, below is the listing of careers for undergraduate Physics, and Philosophy & Theology degree at Oxford University (Oxford doesn't have a 'straight' philosophy undergraduate course)

 

Physics: All Oxford physics graduates either find immediate employment or go on to further study. Physicists take up an enormous variety of careers. A large proportion (40%) take higher degrees (at Oxford or elsewhere) with eventual careers in research laboratories or universities. Physicists are in strong demand in almost all professions, but especially those requiring numerate problem solving ability (IT, finance, technical consultancy, etc.).

 

Philosophy and Theology: Philosophy and Theology graduates enter a wide range of careers, including academic teaching and research, school teaching, commerce, banking and financial services, journalism and communications. The Theology website has more information about careers for theologians. (boldfacing mine)

 

Bottom-line: With a Philosophy and Theology degree you can start a career in commerce, banking, or other financial services. I guess this involves the principle that money is a god. ( )

 

and #3, agreed, thought would be cool in a geeky way.

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I also believe in the above' date=' but I also beleive in Science. There is a middle ground where the 2 do not conflict.[/quote'] I believe in science too. Science has been a very good tool to advance Mankind's knowledge. It and scholarship has been a good way of assessing that nebulous elusive notion called "truth".

 

I believe in me.

Something philosophically deep from Chad? Did the earth just rock on its axis, cause I felt something.

 

And I

I believe in something more

Than you can understand

d20?

 

I believe I'll have another drink.

Funny cause it is true. Now if you could answer my question, well bigdamnhero's question above, please.

 

. . . Umm . . . About those dreams . . . Your last check bounced' date=' so I'll have to cancel your service . . .[/quote'] *chuckle*

 

I think Sartre is pretty well known - less so than Einstein but probably not much different than Hawking.

Yeah, your right about that.

[rebeccared50]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

"yeah even Santa Claus believes in you"

[L. Marcus]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

There is no Sanity Clause!

[rebeccared50]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

There is no Sanity Clause!

 

well darn it, there should be... my sanity needs every option it can get....

[SteveZilla]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

So you're in the majority; sometimes that's a good place to be.

 

 

Not always. At one time the majority thought the Earth was flat... Didn't make it so.

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

So you're in the majority; sometimes that's a good place to be.

 

Not always. At one time the majority thought the Earth was flat... Didn't make it so.

 

In Oddhat's defence (and common sense), he did say sometimes.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Exactly. Even leaving religion out of the equation' date=' compare the size of the Science section in your local book store to the New Age/Occult section. We don't exactly live in an Age Of Reason.[/quote']

 

 

IMO that's because Science is self-weeding, because after a theory is proven, it's hard for dissenting views to stand thus being disproven.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

In Oddhat's defence (and common sense)' date=' he did say [i']sometimes[/i].

 

True, I could have worded that better. My point was that being in the majority is not good if the sole reason to be there is that it is the majority.

 

Edit: See this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Feds ban Religious ornaments in HUD housing.

I'll wait until I read about it someplace more credible than WorldNutDaily before I get too outraged...

[Tim]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I'll wait until I read about it someplace more credible than WorldNutDaily before I get too outraged...

 

Dismissing the site that has links? Check

 

Deriding the site by calling it names? Check

 

Congrats, YOU are a ultraleft liberal.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

NameCalling? That is so unlike us

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Dismissing the site that has links? Check

 

Deriding the site by calling it names? Check

 

Congrats, YOU are a ultraleft liberal.

Uh..no, actually. Voted for Reagan twice, Bush I once, and even voted for Bush II in 2000. Comfortably right-of-center, thank you very much.

 

It's not about their politics, It's about their reliability, or lack thereof. This is the site that claimed eating tofu makes kids more likely to be gay. And the only links they provided were to the AFA (the folks who called Hurricane Katrina an "instrument of God's mercy") and to some memorandum sans letterhead, allegedly from some landlord purporting to interpret HUD policy.

 

So yes, I expressed skepticism of a claim made on a site that has repeatedly demonstrated itself to be unreliable, even tho it had "links." If there's an ounce of truth in this, you can bet it'll show up in the real press sooner or later. And if the true facts are even close to what WND claims, then I will join you in your outrage.

 

But I did make fun of their name. My bad.

 

Edit: and for the record, yes I would've said the exact same thing if the report had come from DailyKos, and the only supporting links were to AntiWar.com.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Ironically, I just spend half the morning on HUD's website. (My mother lives in HUD housing, and we're trying to get her voucher transfered.) I saw nothing in the tenant rules about religious displays. Says you can't use illegal drugs, do damage to the property, etc; but nothing regarding decorations of any kind. Now if some landlord somewhere wants to write some sort of prohibition into their lease, that's between them, the tenant and the courts.

 

BTW, lots of people in my mom's building put up Christmas trees, and several have overtly religious decorations on their porches, front doors, etc. No one has ever said anything about it.

[zornwil]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Ironically, I just spend half the morning on HUD's website. (My mother lives in HUD housing, and we're trying to get her voucher transfered.) I saw nothing in the tenant rules about religious displays. Says you can't use illegal drugs, do damage to the property, etc; but nothing regarding decorations of any kind. Now if some landlord somewhere wants to write some sort of prohibition into their lease, that's between them, the tenant and the courts.

 

BTW, lots of people in my mom's building put up Christmas trees, and several have overtly religious decorations on their porches, front doors, etc. No one has ever said anything about it.

That's because HUD is waiting until December 25th to throw them all out on the streets. To make a point.

[lemming]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

That's because HUD is waiting until December 25th to throw them all out on the streets. To make a point.

Hey! Don't give it away!

[Enforcer84]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

That's because HUD is waiting until December 25th to throw them all out on the streets. To make a point.

 

Hey! Don't give it away!

 

yeah! Spoilsport!

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

What am I doing up this early?

What are you doing being up early?

[Old Man]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I'm not up early, I'm up late. There's a difference.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Babelfish Sparks Minor Diplomatic Row.

Douglas Adams would be proud. Or disappointed.

 

One of those.

[death tribble]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

How do you know that Zornwil isn't working for me now' date=' too? [/quote']

 

He's not stupid.

 

Well not as stupid as you anyway. I mean you crossed Susano. Nobody should be that stupid.

[death tribble]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

'I believe that children are the future'

 

Which means that I need to nail quite a few women to make the future come true.