Musings on Random Musings

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Bazza,

 

Look out either for thr new X-Files video Revelations or scan YouTube for a clip of Chris Carter and Gillian talking about the X-Files episode Milagro. enjoy.

Thanks for the heads up about the DVD release.

 

was there a particular thing I was supposed to get out of the intro to Milagro?

[death tribble]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

On the other intros Chris or Frank are talking on their own. On the intro to Milagro, Gillian is with Chris. However her head is perched on his shoulder and she is trying to distract him. It's very good.

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

On the other intros Chris or Frank are talking on their own. On the intro to Milagro' date=' Gillian is with Chris. However her head is perched on his shoulder and she is trying to distract him. It's very good.[/quote']

 

Yeah I say it. Was Chris saying something? I was too busy focusing on Gillian.

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

It's late and I got up early today' date=' but I was watching a documentary of the Who. I always loved them, never liked My Generation, but almost everything else was awesome. [/quote'] You been watching Amazing Journey DVD? Very good documentary that.

 

The weird thing is that I can never their names. Actually it's only Roger Daltry whom I forget, and I found it interesting that the band kind of felt the same way.

You can "never their names"?

 

"Keith was a genius, John was a genius, I was on the edge of it, and Roger was just a singer."

And a brilliant one once he found his voice for the band.

 

I found the thing so fascinating that I stayed up way to late. But I will announce for the world, when I think Rock Star? I think Daltry [sic], I think Moon, I think Townsend [sic]. After getting his solo stuff I agree that Entwistle was a genius...

How many bands beside The Who played lead? I'm guessing none. They were unique. Moon showed the rest of the world how to destroy a hotel room, a tradition rock bands to this day follow in his footsteps. Entwistle and Townshend invented the Marshall Stack; and Entwistle produced the first bass solo in a rock hit. Daltery along with his contemporaries (Plant, Rodgers come to mind) invented the hard rock 'look' and 'sound'. Townshend also pioneered the synthesizer an feedback as a "rock instrument" with Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again.

 

there was a question on some stupid show, I love the 70's or something like that and it was this:

 

The Who?

Or

Led Zeppelin

 

I like both bands and they seem very similar from a purely superficial perspective.

Who for me. From Sell Out to Who are You all classic albums. As is Endless Wire. As far as LZ, I like the first 4 the best and individual songs on the other albums.

 

For me Townshend's writing is what made The Who and the themes within the rock operas, and his other writing is what still makes the band relevant to today. "However Much I Booze" showed that a (rock star) mid-life crisis at 30 is not life ending. Pete is now 63. Pete also pre-empted the Idol franchise with "Empty Glass"

 

Now I'm going to hear Baba O'Reilly in my head all night and will be lacking in sleep even more than I am now. Clearly, I've already give up cognizance.

Teenage wasteland, its only teenage wasteland...they're all wasted.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Bazza,

 

Look out either for thr new X-Files video Revelations or scan YouTube for a clip of Chris Carter and Gillian talking about the X-Files episode Milagro. enjoy.

 

Yeah I say it. Was Chris saying something? I was too busy focusing on Gillian.

 

Yeah, she was being a pest, wasn't she? Though she can pester me that way any time she wants.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg8BXkD5C0o

[zornwil]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

You been watching Amazing Journey DVD? Very good documentary that.

 

You can "never their names"?

 

And a brilliant one once he found his voice for the band.

 

How many bands beside The Who played lead? I'm guessing none. They were unique. Moon showed the rest of the world how to destroy a hotel room, a tradition rock bands to this day follow in his footsteps. Entwistle and Townshend invented the Marshall Stack; and Entwistle produced the first bass solo in a rock hit. Daltery along with his contemporaries (Plant, Rodgers come to mind) invented the hard rock 'look' and 'sound'. Townshend also pioneered the synthesizer an feedback as a "rock instrument" with Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again.

 

Who for me. From Sell Out to Who are You all classic albums. As is Endless Wire. As far as LZ, I like the first 4 the best and individual songs on the other albums.

 

For me Townshend's writing is what made The Who and the themes within the rock operas, and his other writing is what still makes the band relevant to today. "However Much I Booze" showed that a (rock star) mid-life crisis at 30 is not life ending. Pete is now 63. Pete also pre-empted the Idol franchise with "Empty Glass"

 

Teenage wasteland, its only teenage wasteland...they're all wasted.

I don't feel there's much similarity between Led Zeppelin and the Who, though I really dislike Led Zeppelin and I do like most of the earlier Who works and a number of later ones, so that may be interfering. Would have to think about it.

 

We can't say that the Who's use of the synth or feedback is necessarily the first, nor necessarily instructive to the many other rock (and other) professional (as opposed to amateur/teenager/garage band) musicians experimenting around the same time. The Monkees actually used the Moog first on "Daily/Nightly" (in what I would call a much more innovative use of the synthesizer, using its unique qualities in a way not resembling conventional woodwinds or keyboards as other early synthesizer users did) and another song which I forget prior to other (if you prefer, remove the word "other" to discount the Monkees as such, but either way...) rock bands. Lennon and Townsend have, or I should say had, an ongoing argument about which was first in using feedback directly as some Beatles song recorded around the same time included such, and some debate either way as to whether the use of such as purely ornamentation and possibly as "merely" random, uncalculated sound as opposed to subsequent more deliberate uses "count" (and I meant to be clearer here, considerable debate as to the intentions of both Townsend and Lennon with some arguments that one or neither understood what they were doing as specifically or deliberately musical). And of course, the avant-guard did all this stuff before, anyway, and both the Beatles and the Who were rampant "thieves" (in terms of uncredited reuse of others' ideas or where they got their inspirations, though of course Led Zeppelin was far worse with more sleazy theft of others' songs, including such as not only old blues artists but in the case of "Dazed and Confused" a contemporary); although this "thievery" was a common - one could well argue even virtually accepted - practice among musicians going back decades in popular music and arguably centuries, although the musical context of reuse of earlier centuries was a bit different in some ways.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I don't feel there's much similarity between Led Zeppelin and the Who, though I really dislike Led Zeppelin and I do like most of the earlier Who works and a number of later ones, so that may be interfering. Would have to think about it.

 

We can't say that the Who's use of the synth or feedback is necessarily the first, nor necessarily instructive to the many other rock (and other) professional (as opposed to amateur/teenager/garage band) musicians experimenting around the same time. The Monkees actually used the Moog first on "Daily/Nightly" (in what I would call a much more innovative use of the synthesizer, using its unique qualities in a way not resembling conventional woodwinds or keyboards as other early synthesizer users did) and another song which I forget prior to other (if you prefer, remove the word "other" to discount the Monkees as such, but either way...) rock bands. Lennon and Townsend have, or I should say had, an ongoing argument about which was first in using feedback directly as some Beatles song recorded around the same time included such, and some debate either way as to whether the use of such as purely ornamentation and possibly as "merely" random, uncalculated sound as opposed to subsequent more deliberate uses "count" (and I meant to be clearer here, considerable debate as to the intentions of both Townsend and Lennon with some arguments that one or neither understood what they were doing as specifically or deliberately musical). And of course, the avant-guard did all this stuff before, anyway, and both the Beatles and the Who were rampant "thieves" (in terms of uncredited reuse of others' ideas or where they got their inspirations, though of course Led Zeppelin was far worse with more sleazy theft of others' songs, including such as not only old blues artists but in the case of "Dazed and Confused" a contemporary); although this "thievery" was a common - one could well argue even virtually accepted - practice among musicians going back decades in popular music and arguably centuries, although the musical context of reuse of earlier centuries was a bit different in some ways.

Well I said superficial. They were huge british bands who's singers looked frighteningly similar in the earlt 70's, who lost their drummers to drugs. Both bands had really really talented bass players who got less notice than their six string compatriots.

 

Both bands have been called groundbreaking (and overrated).

 

 

I love them both.

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I don't feel there's much similarity between Led Zeppelin and the Who' date=' though I really dislike Led Zeppelin and I do like most of the earlier Who works and a number of later ones, so that may be interfering. Would have to think about it. [/quote'] Care to elaborate?

 

We can't say that the Who's use of the synth or feedback is necessarily the first, nor necessarily instructive to the many other rock (and other) professional (as opposed to amateur/teenager/garage band) musicians experimenting around the same time.

You'll note I didn't say that Townshend was the first (ie invented) with deliberate use of audio feedback as a rock instrument or use including synthesizer as a rock instrument. I said Townshend pioneered the use of these as a rock instrument. One doesn't have to be the inventor to be a pioneer. My use here is to bring something into the mainstream as a new development.

 

Eg: A Quick One While He's Away was billed as a mini-opera, and it is widly acknowledged that S.F. Sorrow is the first "rock-opera", Tommy was the first to be billed as a rock-opera and because it was more successful was most people's experience with this new form of rock music, ergo Tommy pioneered "rock-opera". Also, as a footnote, I'm A Boy was originally part of another rock-opera project of Pete's called Quads and Rael is a portent of the future Tommy album.

 

(And apologies for the semi-strawman-ism. I use it as a illustrative example of pioneer.)

 

The Monkees actually used the Moog first on "Daily/Nightly" (in what I would call a much more innovative use of the synthesizer, using its unique qualities in a way not resembling conventional woodwinds or keyboards as other early synthesizer users did) and another song which I forget prior to other (if you prefer, remove the word "other" to discount the Monkees as such, but either way...) rock bands.

Another early use of a similar instrument to the Moog would possibly be the Mellotron (?) and the Moodies would (could) be the first to use this instrument. Do you agree? (trying here so say that the use of the Moog and Melletron were similar developemnts on pop music of the time, just using different instruments)

 

Lennon and Townsend have, or I should say had, an ongoing argument about which was first in using feedback directly as some Beatles song recorded around the same time included such, and some debate either way as to whether the use of such as purely ornamentation and possibly as "merely" random, uncalculated sound as opposed to subsequent more deliberate uses "count" (and I meant to be clearer here, considerable debate as to the intentions of both Townsend and Lennon with some arguments that one or neither understood what they were doing as specifically or deliberately musical).

This argument between the two doesn't surprise me at all. I recal that Paul wrote Back in the USSR as a heavy song after listening to a Who song (IIRC it is "I Can See for Miles"). Also the Beatles (and The Beach Boys) where truly inventive (Revolver, Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper's, Smile).

 

And of course, the avant-guard did all this stuff before, anyway, and both the Beatles and the Who were rampant "thieves" (in terms of uncredited reuse of others' ideas or where they got their inspirations, though of course Led Zeppelin was far worse with more sleazy theft of others' songs, including such as not only old blues artists but in the case of "Dazed and Confused" a contemporary); although this "thievery" was a common - one could well argue even virtually accepted - practice among musicians going back decades in popular music and arguably centuries, although the musical context of reuse of earlier centuries was a bit different in some ways.

*sigh* Some of it is surely rivalry between groups at the times, ie if someone released a psychedelic record the other bands at the time would try to emulate that, thus a new genre gets formed. Sort of the same with hard rock, I'm sure that started in a similar way. That is if you call that "thievery". But if you want to talk such, I'm surprised you didn't mention Bob Dylan. Dylan copies lots of different tunes, and wrote lyrics to other music (Masters of War comes to mind).

 

But that is the "folk way". That is what folk artists did, they borrowed from each other, Dylan in this regard and at the time was no different. It only became an issue when copyright made it an issue. At a guess, the Blues artists would have also shared their music and tunes. One song I'm thinking of here is Crossroads. I'm out of my depth here: but I'm guessing that Robert Johnston didn't write the song, and that Crossroads was a common enough tune and performed by other musicians at the same time.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Old man making people happy? WTF?

I kid, you make me smile regularly so if that's worth anything your fail is not epic.

[Tim]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Hunh. Barewatersports.com isn't what you think it might be.

 

But I shudder to think of what putting "www." in front of that might yield.

 

checked. Same Page

[Old Man]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

You are a brave man.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

It's the glasses.

[archermoo]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

checked. Same Page

 

Not particularly surprising. While it is certainly possible to have domain.tld and http://www.domain.tld point different places, they are both controlled by the same nameserver. I suppose that someone could own domain.tld and then rent out http://www.domain.tld to someone else. But it sounds unlikely.

[lemming]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Not particularly surprising. While it is certainly possible to have domain.tld and http://www.domain.tld point different places' date=' they are both controlled by the same nameserver. I suppose that someone could own domain.tld and then rent out http://www.domain.tld to someone else. But it sounds unlikely.[/quote']

 

lots of places point different depending on what is at X of X.domain.tld, but it would be unusual to have http://www.domain.tld & domain.tld be different.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Really? Hmm. I must be thinking of something else.

 

No matter. The URL is still surprising.

[archermoo]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

lots of places point different depending on what is at X of X.domain.tld' date=' but it would be unusual to have www.domain.tld & domain.tld be different.

 

Yup, my basic point with some extra facts thrown in.

[lemming]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Yup' date=' my basic point with some extra facts thrown in. [/quote']

 

That's me. Extra Facts.

[Old Man]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I can't wait for the new .tlds to go on sale next year.

[archermoo]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I can't wait for the new .tlds to go on sale next year.

 

I can.

[Old Man]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

It sounds as though they're going to cost $100k a pop, which means that the public is locked out and only big corps and big pr0n will be able to get them. Feel better now?

[archermoo]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

It sounds as though they're going to cost $100k a pop' date=' which means that the public is locked out and only big corps and big pr0n will be able to get them. Feel better now?[/quote']

 

Not measurably, no. Though I'll admit that I don't really have much in the way of a concrete objection to it. I just don't like it.

 

Though I'll be interested to see how they handle tld's that multiple organizations want to register. Personally, I think they should institute a bidding war over them.

 

"Next tld up for bid: .xxx. Opening at $250,000..."

[zornwil]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Nah, not really, as I don't care much either way on the topic.

 

You'll note I didn't say that Townshend was the first (ie invented) with deliberate use of audio feedback as a rock instrument or use including synthesizer as a rock instrument. I said Townshend pioneered the use of these as a rock instrument. One doesn't have to be the inventor to be a pioneer. My use here is to bring something into the mainstream as a new development.

 

Sorry, fair point, I'm accustomed to those using "pioneer" in an arguing way between Beatles and Who, as opposed to complementary.

 

Though one could argue the Kinks "completed" the rock sound well and truly before the Who or Led Zep. I'll leave it at "could" argue....

 

Eg: A Quick One While He's Away was billed as a mini-opera, and it is widly acknowledged that S.F. Sorrow is the first "rock-opera", Tommy was the first to be billed as a rock-opera and because it was more successful was most people's experience with this new form of rock music, ergo Tommy pioneered "rock-opera". Also, as a footnote, I'm A Boy was originally part of another rock-opera project of Pete's called Quads and Rael is a portent of the future Tommy album.

 

(And apologies for the semi-strawman-ism. I use it as a illustrative example of pioneer.)

 

Another early use of a similar instrument to the Moog would possibly be the Mellotron (?) and the Moodies would (could) be the first to use this instrument. Do you agree? (trying here so say that the use of the Moog and Melletron were similar developemnts on pop music of the time, just using different instruments)

 

No, I would disagree, because the mellotron is an analogue sampler rather than synthesizer and the impacts on music of each were and are fundamentally different.

 

As an aside, in fact, the playing on a Monkees song (I forget which one) of a "professional" musician of the Moog on the same album as Dolenz' untrained use is a good example of the original misuse of the synthesizer to merely replace-and-replicate analogue instruments' purpose in music indicates a sort of non-use of the Moog in terms of its actual strong points, whereas Dolenz' untrained use demonstrates more the instrument on its own terms. But I digress...

 

This argument between the two doesn't surprise me at all. I recal that Paul wrote Back in the USSR as a heavy song after listening to a Who song (IIRC it is "I Can See for Miles"). Also the Beatles (and The Beach Boys) where truly inventive (Revolver, Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper's, Smile).

 

*sigh* Some of it is surely rivalry between groups at the times, ie if someone released a psychedelic record the other bands at the time would try to emulate that, thus a new genre gets formed. Sort of the same with hard rock, I'm sure that started in a similar way. That is if you call that "thievery". But if you want to talk such, I'm surprised you didn't mention Bob Dylan. Dylan copies lots of different tunes, and wrote lyrics to other music (Masters of War comes to mind).

 

But that is the "folk way". That is what folk artists did, they borrowed from each other, Dylan in this regard and at the time was no different. It only became an issue when copyright made it an issue. At a guess, the Blues artists would have also shared their music and tunes. One song I'm thinking of here is Crossroads. I'm out of my depth here: but I'm guessing that Robert Johnston didn't write the song, and that Crossroads was a common enough tune and performed by other musicians at the same time.

 

I didn't mention Dylan because he wasn't brought up, that's all. I mentioned Led Zeppelin in particular only as they were brought up and are known to be among the worst among successful artists.

 

However, there is no reason to believe the Blues artists would have so willingly shared their tunes. Remember, it was the blues artists who, like other such performers before them, turned their bodies so that other artists couldn't see how they were playing things, and blues artists had to especially-fiercely guard their secrets to protect their very-meager earnings. Without recompense, no doubt many if not the majority would have refused to share such. Informal and formal mentoring was one of the few paths through which older/senior artists shared their secrets with successors. There's some good story on this in the Robert Johnson liner notes encapsulating his work, if I recall correctly as to where I read one such thing of the blues professional rivalries and jealousies.

 

PS - and aside from copyright, the artists often made "borrowing" an issue. Just because they lacked the financial resources to sue, don't confuse that with ongoing arguments and controversies publicly played out by older generations of artists who weren't hooked into a mass music machine that now has the resources and reasons to sue.

[zornwil]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

It sounds as though they're going to cost $100k a pop' date=' which means that the public is locked out and only big corps and big pr0n will be able to get them. Feel better now?[/quote']

For which .tlds?

[death tribble]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

And where have you been, Nemesis mine ?

 

I was expecting you to visit England last year but no contact.

[zornwil]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

And where have you been, Nemesis mine ?

 

I was expecting you to visit England last year but no contact.

Yeah, not sure, either, when it will be. We've intended to year-to-year but with my wife's business and other stuff it's become too difficult to schedule. Doing well, though. And you?