L. Marcus Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word Ah. How is that? I bought Pathfinder last month -- hoping to play that sometime soon ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word IMO, D&D4 is OK. Yeah, it's class- and level-based so you are compelled to a limited number of character concept options. Yeah, it's d20 so you are at the mercy of a flat probability distribution function. Yeah, the mechanics are streamlined if not downright simplified. Yeah, your combat ability is not, for the most part, affected by how much damage you have taken, only by application of "conditions" that are entirely distinct from (though usually applied at the same time as) damage that can kill you. Yeah, your combat maneuver options are very limited. Still, it's a High Fantasy system which is approachable for novices to RPGs (like my kids) and doesn't require a great deal of thinking to wrap your mind around the system. Noncombat skills are diminished in importance, but a GM can spice that up with effort (and IME it's not that far below 5er in that regard, actually). All told, it's not an awful system in core concept, and at least in the materials that have appeared so far, they have done a good job at balance, that is, in keeping most of the classes useful at all stages of character development. (A valid criticism on AD&D was that beginning magic-users died instantly after getting their one spell a day fired off, but if a magic-user survived to a high enough level they were just godlike and everyone else became superfluous. That isn't an issue, at least that we have seen so far.) I haven't wrapped my mind around the later additional materials, but the "power creep" (where options available in material published later are so more versatile/powerful that the initially available options are untenable) that is so evident in other systems hasn't become apparent yet. The system is young enough that it could still develop, of course. I don't care for the background universe material, but that can be worked around. In fact, I've never liked any game system's published background universe material and generally made my game-worlds from whole cloth anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word What do you feel is lacking in published worlds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word This is strictly a personal thing, but I believe that good and evil are things within sentients themselves. There's no need for infernal devils or inhuman demons or abyssal gods or incomprehensible monsters from other dimensions. Lust for power and gold is intrinsic to the internally contradictory state engines which are the minds of sentient beings, and the reason our conflicts are so poignant is sentients' capacity to bring astonishingly powerful effects under their control in order to win the conflicts in which they choose to participate. More fundamentally, sentients are free to decide for themselves what makes for their own victory or defeat. That short-circuits nearly all fantasy world background mythosystems that are published, and a lot of non-fantastic world backgrounds as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word (A valid criticism on AD&D was that beginning magic-users died instantly after getting their one spell a day fired off' date=' but if a magic-user survived to a high enough level they were just godlike and everyone else became superfluous. That isn't an issue, at least that we have seen so far.) [/quote'] *thinks to myself* what does that make of my L36 mage & psionicist* with superpowers, and 4x Hero System inspired Ultimate Skills? *plus L20 RuneQuest battlemage. (note: over 90 Hit Dice) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word It makes it a character that should be retired. D&D4 caps out at level 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word It makes it a character that should be retired. D&D4 caps out at level 30. That D&D game was "old school" the levels capped at L36 then you went questing to be an Immortal (Red Box to Immortal Box rules) psst: the character became Immortal. by saving another uber-wizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word I've never had a D&D character of any edition that got past level 10 or 11. The high-level stuff doesn't interest me as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word I think my highest-levelled D&D character was a level eight Fighter under 3.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word Our group is notorious for the "Ooh, shiny" problem with new systems and campaigns, so we'll see how long these D&D campaigns last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Re: The Last Word There's nothing wrong with shiny. In moderation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word This is strictly a personal thing, but I believe that good and evil are things within sentients themselves. There's no need for infernal devils or inhuman demons or abyssal gods or incomprehensible monsters from other dimensions. Lust for power and gold is intrinsic to the internally contradictory state engines which are the minds of sentient beings, and the reason our conflicts are so poignant is sentients' capacity to bring astonishingly powerful effects under their control in order to win the conflicts in which they choose to participate. More fundamentally, sentients are free to decide for themselves what makes for their own victory or defeat. That short-circuits nearly all fantasy world background mythosystems that are published, and a lot of non-fantastic world backgrounds as well. *thinking of a campaign focused on Logical Positivism & Structuralism† Thinks this might be more Cancer's forte* † Including Structuralism (philosophy of science). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Re: The Last Word Naah. Then I'd have to acquaint myself with philosophical thought, and that is much more work than it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Re: The Last Word "Logic is a fine thing, but mostly it can't compare to actual thought." --Someone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Re: The Last Word Logic is the chastity belt of the mind. -- Hank the Hallucination, Eyebeam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: The Last Word "Logic is a fine thing, but mostly it can't compare to actual thought." --Someone Logic is the chastity belt of the mind. -- Hank the Hallucination, Eyebeam Without logic there would be no reason. without reason there would be no civilization. -- Me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: The Last Word One entertaining thing about Hank: despite being a hallucination, he is a strict literalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: The Last Word That's nice -- he reads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: The Last Word He does, but you must be careful with rhetorical devices around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: The Last Word Is he a language police as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Re: The Last Word No, but if you start a sentence with a supposition, he will take it literally. E.g., "Suppose you didn't exist" makes him immediately vanish, and he stays gone for weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Re: The Last Word ... He takes that as an imperative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Re: The Last Word No, he includes all the implications of such arguments into his presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Re: The Last Word ... PowerPoint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Re: The Last Word Actions (including states of being) in addition to words. Hank is from that happier era, before PowerPoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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