Cancer Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word Thanks for the answer, I want to come back to a few points you made, but another question: How much of dialectic / logic (that is to reason correctly) is within science? I know that is probably a dumb question., let me explain a bit. A computer is basically a system of boolean logic (1,0, AND, OR, XOR, NOT etc) and IIRC Bacon's approach to science is one of logic as well (Novum Organum). And Occam's razor would be based on logic as well, right? So (I'm thinking) that logic (thinking correctly and soundly) is imperative to science (and to other subjects i.e. IT). So then...why isn't it taught in school? Why wasn't I taught logic (as a subject) as school? (is this why there is a whole generation of people who can't reason soundly?) Thanks as always. I never had formal teaching in logic, either. I wanted to try a course in it in college, but when I had time for it I couldn't fit it into my schedule. At other times I was to busy to consider it (for instance, I ended up taking the entire 3-class sophomore lecture series in one term, because it was do that or stay another year). Boolean logic was a (quick) topic in my first digital circuits courses. I have the impression that's still true, but I'd have to check on that explicitly to be sure now. How boolean logic related to formal logic and its place in philosophy was never even hinted at. When I was about 11 I was given a symbolic logic game (WFF 'n Proof, you can find it on the web). I found the rules to be unparseable, and I spent quite some time on it trying to figure it out. I ended up shelving it, hauling it out every couple of years to see if I could read it yet. Finally after reaching grad school I recognized that the rules were in a technical jargon, a dialect, so to speak. (I was able to recognize this because I was learning to read and write the astronomy/astrophysics technical jargon at the time.) That wasn't of direct help in reading those rules, but it did let me recognize what the difficulty was, and how to go about wrapping my mind around what it was saying. Since I had given up RPGs while in grad school I wasn't going to take on a different game, but I figured I could crack it open once I was done. And it was about that time also that I had the fire in my apartment, and that game was among the things lost in the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word Pet photos and stuff like this I like that. Nice use of depth of field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word Indeedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word Back when I had a 60 mm aperture f/16 refracting telescope (so that's a 960 mm focal length) and an adapter to mount a camera on it, I took a lot of pics with that combination. I had no aperture to stop it down, so I always had a narrow depth of field to go with the narrow field of view. But I got some neat wildlife shots, since I didn't have to get close to things to take shots of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word No huntsman you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word True. But I've never heard of badgers being considered good hunting, and I took a lot of shots of badgers. They had a den in a nearby pasture, they don't move much, and if you keep your distance they ignore you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word It's said that badgers have the habit of biting hunters until they hear the bone crack, so folk wisdom says to but hard bread in your boots when out in the forest. Bread crackes at first nibble -- badger thinks it's won. I wonder if badgers like hard bread ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word I never tried feeding them, so I wouldn't know. And since they control the burrowing rodents, I don't want to keep them from doing that, either. As long as I stood off 30 meters or more, I could take lots of photos of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word Grumpy critters, aren't they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word I never had formal teaching in logic, either. I wanted to try a course in it in college, but when I had time for it I couldn't fit it into my schedule. At other times I was to busy to consider it (for instance, I ended up taking the entire 3-class sophomore lecture series in one term, because it was do that or stay another year). Boolean logic was a (quick) topic in my first digital circuits courses. I have the impression that's still true, but I'd have to check on that explicitly to be sure now. How boolean logic related to formal logic and its place in philosophy was never even hinted at. But logic is fundamental to science, right? When I was about 11 I was given a symbolic logic game (WFF 'n Proof, you can find it on the web). I found the rules to be unparseable, and I spent quite some time on it trying to figure it out. I ended up shelving it, hauling it out every couple of years to see if I could read it yet. Finally after reaching grad school I recognized that the rules were in a technical jargon, a dialect, so to speak. (I was able to recognize this because I was learning to read and write the astronomy/astrophysics technical jargon at the time.) That wasn't of direct help in reading those rules, but it did let me recognize what the difficulty was, and how to go about wrapping my mind around what it was saying. Since I had given up RPGs while in grad school I wasn't going to take on a different game, but I figured I could crack it open once I was done. And it was about that time also that I had the fire in my apartment, and that game was among the things lost in the fire. Amazon has the game for $4.50 if you are interested. Might make a good 'torture device' for students... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Re: The Last Word Sure, logic is fundamental to science, but one picks up most of the rules of logic, and some of the avoidable logical fallacies, without formal training in it. "If-then" statements are a huge part of what a science does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word Sure' date=' logic is fundamental to science, but one picks up most of the rules of logic, and some of the avoidable logical fallacies, without formal training in it. "If-then" statements are a huge part of what a science does.[/quote'] Cheers. So it is like programming then, one picks up logic "on the job" within any formal training. Well at least in my experience as a "professional student" (2 diplomas, 1 bachelor and two units away from another) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word Annoying week for electronics. Laptop fan started doing constant rattle. Replaced it this evening, but to replace a fan on a Qosmio x305, you pretty much have to disassemble the entire device. Wife's computer, the power supply started overheating and making bad plastic melting smells. Ordered a new PS after backing her data up. At least she has her netbook to use. And my DSLR has dust in the sensor area that was just too annoying, so off to Nikon it went today. Hopefully not too long to get back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word Me, I'm just trying to figure out why our two iPods quit working. For mine (a "3rd generation nano") the screen won't come on at all. Plug it into a (Windows) computer and it's recognized as an iPod device when you look at the icon that shows up in the tray, but that's it; iTunes doesn't interact with the device at all. I haven't seen this symptom listed anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word schizophrenia electronica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word I'm suspecting a more general case of bellyupform snafuitis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word Ah. Systemic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word Well, like I said: I haven't seen these symptoms mentioned anywhere. That usually isn't good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word The X-Box 360 has got the dreaded Ring of Fire ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMan Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word Have you tried salve? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Re: The Last Word Me' date=' I'm just trying to figure out why our two iPods quit working. For mine (a "3rd generation nano") the screen won't come on at all. Plug it into a (Windows) computer and it's recognized as an iPod device when you look at the icon that shows up in the tray, but that's it; iTunes doesn't interact with the device at all. I haven't seen this symptom listed anywhere.[/quote'] Advice: take it to the Seattle Apple Store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Re: The Last Word Well, I expect their answer to be, "They're hosed, buy a couple of new ones." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Re: The Last Word Pantyhosed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Re: The Last Word Well' date=' I expect their answer to be, "They're hosed, buy a couple of new ones."[/quote'] But that doesn't fix the issue. Also, if they are unwilling to actually _try_ to troubleshoot the problem, you would be less inclined to buy another, right? (and I'm a Mac fan, but common sense prevails ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Re: The Last Word I know of at least one iPod repair place in town; I'm asking around if anyone has particular recommendations about such places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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