Cancer Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Re: The Last Word I'm not a particle/field person, but I think the answer to that is No. Those others you mention are fundamental forces, and it's already been demonstrated that the weak force and E&M are the same at higher energies ... at low energies, there's a symmetry breaking that leads the two to behave differently, but for interactions at sufficiently high energy they are the same force. It is widely suspected that the strong force will merge with the electroweak force at higher yet energies. This leads off to ideas about Grant Unified Theories (GUTs). There is a lot of speculation about gravitation uniting with the others at high enough energies, but there isn't even the beginnings of a satisfactory quantum gravity treatment, so that's pie in the sky right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Re: The Last Word ...Mmmm ... Quantum pie ... Eat it and keep it ... ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Re: The Last Word That can get disgusting, it should be admitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Re: The Last Word Tastes good liquified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Re: The Last Word I'm not a particle/field person, but I think the answer to that is No. Those others you mention are fundamental forces, and it's already been demonstrated that the weak force and E&M are the same at higher energies ... at low energies, there's a symmetry breaking that leads the two to behave differently, but for interactions at sufficiently high energy they are the same force. It is widely suspected that the strong force will merge with the electroweak force at higher yet energies. This leads off to ideas about Grant Unified Theories (GUTs). There is a lot of speculation about gravitation uniting with the others at high enough energies, but there isn't even the beginnings of a satisfactory quantum gravity treatment, so that's pie in the sky right now. I ask because if I understand it correctly we get this stuff called "matter" from interaction with the Higgs field. Kinda makes it important/fundamental. Another question: Have you heard of the "unified field"? is it the same as the (misnamed) quantum vacuum*? *if not, lecture slowly and carry a big ruler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word There are some coffee-laced beers brewed around these parts. I've never tried them. Many are quite yummy. I liked Double Black Stout from Redhook, but I don't know if they make it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word ... Coffee and alcohol in combo can't possibly be healthy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word I dunno about that. Irish coffee is good, and we often have Irish cream liqueur in our coffee on cold evenings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word ... Nasty, nasty ... But not as nasty as vodka and Red Bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word I ask because if I understand it correctly we get this stuff called "matter" from interaction with the Higgs field. Kinda makes it important/fundamental. Another question: Have you heard of the "unified field"? is it the same as the (misnamed) quantum vacuum*? *if not, lecture slowly and carry a big ruler The Higgs field doesn't give us "matter"; it gives us the phenomenon called "mass", the resistance to movement which matter shows, if the theory is right. We have yet to observe the Higgs boson directly (it's one of those particles people want to find). The quantum vacuum is not the same as the unified field. I don't think I've ever seen the term "unified field" as a stand-alone, only in combination with the third word "theory". That's because the "unified" is a modifier on "field theory", rather than "theory" applying to something called the "unified field". Unified field theory is something like what I mentioned upstream in this thread: the idea that the same quantum field theory will be able to describe the interactions of particles via all the fields (electroweak, strong, and eventually gravity). Each of those forces has its own field theory. The goal is to unify those distinct field theories into a single elegant one. The quantum vacuum is a logically required consequence of the quantum hypothesis and its own logical corollaries. Empty space (in the classical picture) has some energy content (which not zero). On the quantum level, there is are quantum fluctuations occurring on the microscale all the time around that average energy content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word ... Am I right in saying that the Kasimir effect has been demonstrated experimentally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word O yes. Multiple times, with several different set-ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word Yay! Now to cheat the Universe out of a free lunch ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word Umm ... I don't recommend trying that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word Relax! What could possibly go wrong?, apart from pulling the plug on the false vacuum ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word Well, the last time that happened, the whole Universe decayed in less than a picosecond into a volume of nearly infinite temperature that subsequently expanded and cooled, leaving almost no trace of what existed before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word While you can't get a free lunch, you can often get a two for one coupon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word Sometimes, though usually such coupons are for things you don't want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word Only Valid Through December 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: The Last Word Gee, yours are more current than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: The Last Word The Higgs field doesn't give us "matter"; it gives us the phenomenon called "mass", the resistance to movement which matter shows, if the theory is right. We have yet to observe the Higgs boson directly (it's one of those particles people want to find). The quantum vacuum is not the same as the unified field. I don't think I've ever seen the term "unified field" as a stand-alone, only in combination with the third word "theory". That's because the "unified" is a modifier on "field theory", rather than "theory" applying to something called the "unified field". Unified field theory is something like what I mentioned upstream in this thread: the idea that the same quantum field theory will be able to describe the interactions of particles via all the fields (electroweak, strong, and eventually gravity). Each of those forces has its own field theory. The goal is to unify those distinct field theories into a single elegant one. The quantum vacuum is a logically required consequence of the quantum hypothesis and its own logical corollaries. Empty space (in the classical picture) has some energy content (which not zero). On the quantum level, there is are quantum fluctuations occurring on the microscale all the time around that average energy content. thanks. And I confused mass with matter, I reread my science book recently and you are right. My conclusion/deduction was that without mass in particles we wouldn't have protons, neutrons and electrons—the constituent parts of matter. Which then makes the Higgs field pretty important. But is it as important and universal as the 4 fundamental forces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: The Last Word Well' date=' the last time [u']that[/u] happened, the whole Universe decayed in less than a picosecond into a volume of nearly infinite temperature that subsequently expanded and cooled, leaving almost no trace of what existed before. Ah, I think the Hindi's would disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: The Last Word The old Aryans didn't have cyclotrons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: The Last Word Probably I ought to have been more precise. There's lots of remnants of what existed before, but approximately all of the information has been destroyed. Passage through a state of extremely high pressure and density, and more to the point the thermal equilibrium that exists in that state, destroys knowledge of the earlier states: such knowledge is by definition a nonequilibrium condition. The era of inflation, in which the Universe expanded exponentially and smoothed out nearly all of the preexisting structure, also removed a lot of that knowledge from observability. In principle some of that might become observable again as the Universe ages and we can receive the light from more distant points. OTOH, maybe not, if (as seems to be the case from the supernova surveys) the expansion is accelerating now. The COBE and WMAP results on the microwave background have picked up some information about what went on in the very early Universe, and perhaps something about an out-of-equilibrium mass distribution; that last is very early interesting reports that I have mentioned in press releases but not in preprint form yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: The Last Word ... There's something about the polarity of the microwave background ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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