Bazza Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER The Aborigines? Or The Egyptians of the Old Kingdom? Or the Babylonians? Please, not the Atlanteans! Well, the pagans. whether you call them the people who built Stonehenge, the Pyramid, the other megaliths etc. Those people. Which as far as I can tell, the Greeks inherited. The number system involving feet, rods, poles etc. that is the type of number system I'm talking about. I believe there are a few ancient ones along those lines that overlap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER They were similar in certain ways, sure, but there was never a single, unified system of measurement. I mean, didn't every single Greek polis have their own system of weights and measurements? Cubit, sure, but how long was it? The Ancient Egyptian varied in length, and that was just in one culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER They were similar in certain ways' date=' sure, but there was never a single, unified system of measurement. I mean, didn't every single Greek [i']polis[/i] have their own system of weights and measurements? Cubit, sure, but how long was it? The Ancient Egyptian varied in length, and that was just in one culture. I think there was a system of measurement, the thing was that it was overlapping with other systems of metrology. I've just finished reading a book on the Temple of Jerusalem which uses this. One system is decimal (ie base ten) and the other is duodecimal (base 12) to give two systems that use the same units. The measurements of Solomon's Temple make use both base 10 and base 12. And there could be use of ratio in there as well. If it sounds complicated, it is because for me it is. So totally unfamiliar but it is there. And that is just one use of the Imperial Ancient mexamples of metrology I've come across. I've come across others. edit: part of the facination with them is that they also have or are also based on measurements of earth, like its radius. THis is what I was trying to verify and why i asked the original question, many posts ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Customer: I’d like to return this 'Where’s Wally?' book, please. Bookseller: Why? Customer: Because I’ve found him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER I think there was a system of measurement, the thing was that it was overlapping with other systems of metrology. I've just finished reading a book on the Temple of Jerusalem which uses this. One system is decimal (ie base ten) and the other is duodecimal (base 12) to give two systems that use the same units. The measurements of Solomon's Temple make use both base 10 and base 12. And there could be use of ratio in there as well. If it sounds complicated, it is because for me it is. So totally unfamiliar but it is there. And that is just one use of the Imperial Ancient mexamples of metrology I've come across. I've come across others. edit: part of the facination with them is that they also have or are also based on measurements of earth, like its radius. THis is what I was trying to verify and why i asked the original question, many posts ago. On an allied subject, then, in the Non-Fiction Book thread I recently mentioned a book about the beginnings of the Julian calendar. The chaos of calendation in ancient times is nearly incomprehensible to any modern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER On an allied subject' date=' then, in the Non-Fiction Book thread I recently mentioned a book about the beginnings of the Julian calendar. The chaos of calendation in ancient times is nearly incomprehensible to any modern.[/quote'] I read your review and liked it. I've just finished reading an excerpt of Plato's Timaeus and your issue is mentioned within, reconciling calendars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER It also pays to remember (when discussing metrology and so on for the ancients) that arithmetic was much harder when you didn't have the zero. We don't bother to teach how to do arithmetic with (e.g.) Roman numerals any more, because it's unnecessary (and for the record, division is Horrible Beyond Belief). Ratios are very attractive as working tools in such circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER I'd hate to be the Mathematician that discovered the zero. "I discovered the diameter of the Earth!" "I discovered "nothing"." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER It also pays to remember (when discussing metrology and so on for the ancients) that arithmetic was much harder when you didn't have the zero. We don't bother to teach how to do arithmetic with (e.g.) Roman numerals any more' date=' because it's unnecessary (and for the record, division is Horrible Beyond Belief). Ratios are very attractive as working tools in such circumstances.[/quote'] Yes. From what I have encountered, ratios were used a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Which explains why irrational numbers like root 2, and pi, were so ... vexing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Irrational irritation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Okay, Cancer. I have a fun question for you. Why does the black bucket fly up into the air when the explosion occurs? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ9yn8vLdig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER The can was not the only thing to explode. The Janitor did as well, when told he had to clean all that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Yes. From what I have encountered' date=' ratios were used a lot. [/font'] Which explains why irrational numbers like root 2' date=' and pi, were so ... vexing.[/quote'] but ratios/irrational numbers can have a beauty to them...like in music http://www.woodenbooks.com/gallery/postcard/SNM.00018.jpg (From Wooden Books title Sacred Number) http://www.woodenbooks.com/gallery/postcard/HMG.00019.jpg (From Wooden Books title Harmonograph) ps: you can move forwards or backwards in the book by editing the number. Works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER "The final truth, as Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj and all the sages before them have clearly stated, is that there is neither creation nor destruction, neither birth nor death, neither destiny nor free will, neither any path nor any achievement. All there is is Consciousness." "Truth or Reality is itself a concept. When you are in the truth or in deep sleep, which is only a pale reflection of the real, in that state of deep sleep is the Truth. And in that Truth there is no experience. In the waking state, the state of deep sleep is a concept. In deep sleep it is the Truth. But the moment you think of Reality, the moment you think Subject, the moment you think of the Absolute, the moment you think of the Truth, it is a concept. It is only when the thinking totally stops that Truth exists." "When we talk of time and space, we say infinite space and eternal time. It is still a mental concept of total space and total time. But the mind cannot conceive of that state prior to the arising of the space-time. The moment you think of Reality, the reality is a concept. You are the Reality of which the split-mind makes a concept. You are the Reality, but not as the "me" "All there is, is Consciousness. And the mind is merely a reflection of that Consciousness." All quotes by Ramesh Balsekar So there was no Big Bang after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Translated, that says: "We don't understand it, therefore no one can, and it must not be worth further thought." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER You and i understand the English language very differently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER The can was not the only thing to explode. The Janitor did as well, when told he had to clean all that up. Well, seeing as Cancer didn't answer the question, we might be able to conclude that he also exploded, or perhaps he was said janitor. I've watched it a couple times, and I think the cause of the can going upward when the explosion occurred is the water in the can. I think that when it explodes, it pushes the bottom of the plastic can downward because the mass of the water forces the explosion downward. Then the vacuum caused by the explosion sucks the water back in and then up sending the balls flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Not so differently. It is a matter of experience (mine): I deal with and have dealt with lots of people who like to think they understand stuff, and their performance in working through problems/essays/thought exercises clearly indicates they don't understand. I have read (and heard) a lot of comments from people who haven't (often, I infer, because they don't want to) put in the work needed to understand the physics that is modern cosmology, but have this internal need to believe that they have a superior understanding/feeling about how the Universe came to be/is evolving/works/etc. All too often they are dismissive of those things they don't understand, cling fanatically to their own beliefs in a "pantalons rouge, c'est la France!" sort of way, and are dismissive, often contemptuously dismissive, of those people who have done the work to gain a working understanding. This is not just from students in classes; I encounter such things all too often, including on these boards (and I don't mean this thread). And the comments made by such people about whatever they are using in place of cosmology nearly always boil down to mystical drivel, because historically, that's all anyone could say, and there's a template for people there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Cancer, since you didn't answer my last question, I'll give you a new one. I think I understand the physics behind this, the base imparts its momentum energy back to the metronomes, but I'm curious if I'm correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Gah, sorry about the earlier question. I was too busy to watch the video when you posted it, and now it's been taken down. This second one is weak coupling among the oscillators (metronomes). Probably the coupling is mostly through the counter-swaying of the base as you suggest, because you see that motion is noticeably larger even at 90 seconds into the video. But I think the synchronization would still happen, albeit more slowly, if the base were rigid and not moving; the sound waves and air currents would be enough to bring it about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER What if the timings on the metronomes were different? If some were say 90 BPM and others were 133 BPM? I'm assuming that there would be no way for the oscillations to equalize, but I wonder if they "embed" in that the midpoints of the beats would synchronize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER That turns it into a math problem solving for the system of coupled oscillators, and what comes out of it depends on the exact frequencies and initial conditions. Depending on what those are, you may get a chaotic system, but you may get a long-term meta-oscillation as the two frequencies beat against each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER Hm... I'll have to talk to my kids' music teacher and see if he has any metronomes. I think everyone uses digital metronomes these days, so trying to do this experiment might prove difficult. Maybe my daughter's university professors have some analog metronomes... I'm really curious to know what the different beats would resolve to, if they would become syncopated in some fashion, or if it would remain a dissonant beat. Might be an interesting study in musical composition as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Re: Longest Running Thread EVER If you google for "coupled oscillators" you may find some software simulations. Real metronomes wind down relatively fast (we used to have one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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