What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

[Southern Cross]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

I'm going to recommend Spider-Man:The Darkest Hours by Jim Butcher.Yes,the writer of the Dresden Files has written a Spider-Man novel.Yes it is awesome.

And yes,it proves beyond reasonable doubt that Joe Quesada is an idiot.

[Susano]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Is that the one with the Rhino?

 

'cause I read a (or is it the only?) Butcher Spider-man novel and it was awesome.

[Southern Cross]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Yes it is.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Is that the one with the Rhino?

 

'cause I read a (or is it the only?) Butcher Spider-man novel and it was awesome.

 

Indeed!

[Checkmate]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

I don't know I've always been leery of reading a comic book character in novel form. I mean taking written work and turning it into...written work. With so many strong recommendations, maybe I'll check it out.

[DusterBoy]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Well, I read a couple of Batman novels: "To Stalk a Spectre" and one with Catwoman. It works very well. Diane Duane and Peter Morwood have written Spiderman novels as well.

[csyphrett]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Finished Rick Riordon's Sea of Monsters starring Percy Jackson. Camp Half-Blood is under attack, Chiron is replaced by Tantalus, and Percy Jackson has to find Grover before he is eaten.

CES

[bloomann]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

I read not too long ago the first book of the Thomas Covenant Series Lord Fouls Bane by Stephan Donaldson, considered a classic by many, on a par with Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Frankly I was more then disappointed, Thomas Covenant is a whiner complaining throughout the entire book! I almost threw the book across the room when around 1/3 of the way in Thomas Covenant RAPES an unsuspecting 16 year girl who had discovered him when he came through to THE LAND for the first time. it was sheer torture just trying to work my way over Donaldson's oblique style and prose. Nothing worked in this book, or seldom. I have the other two up on the shelf but there is no way I'm going back in, no way. I can't connect with the characters which seem 2 dimensional, and the "hero" of the story is a miserable louse who represents, to me at least, the down side of the human scale. Please tell me there is redemption, heroics, something that happens in these books. I just don't get it.

[csyphrett]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

I have only read the first two sets of Covenant books. Thomas Covenant is only important in the fact that he carries a ring of magic and people can push him into dealing with the villain of the piece. For the most part, he is the load that is carried by other characters to the final confrontation.

CES

[Greywind]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

I read not too long ago the first book of the Thomas Covenant Series Lord Fouls Bane by Stephan Donaldson' date=' considered a classic by many, on a par with Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Frankly I was more then disappointed, Thomas Covenant is a whiner complaining throughout the entire book! I almost threw the book across the room when around 1/3 of the way in Thomas Covenant RAPES an unsuspecting 16 year girl who had discovered him when he came through to THE LAND for the first time. it was sheer torture just trying to work my way over Donaldson's oblique style and prose. Nothing worked in this book, or seldom. I have the other two up on the shelf but there is no way I'm going back in, no way. I can't connect with the characters which seem 2 dimensional, and the "hero" of the story is a miserable louse who represents, to me at least, the down side of the human scale. Please tell me there is redemption, heroics, something that happens in these books. I just don't get it.[/quote']It took me a long time to work through Lord Foul's Bane when I read it. Something like 4 months. The story gets better and easier to read.

[bloomann]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

It took me a long time to work through Lord Foul's Bane when I read it. Something like 4 months. The story gets better and easier to read.

 

well I'm not even going to try. Anybody want my copies? half price plus postage!

[Netzilla]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

It took me a long time to work through Lord Foul's Bane when I read it. Something like 4 months. The story gets better and easier to read.

 

While it might get easier to read, I can't say I thought it got better. I actually read through the first two trilogies and grew more disillusioned with the series as it went. The only reason I kept reading it was because I liked a couple of the secondary characters. I continued to despise the lead and kept hoping he would somehow redeem himself, which never really happened for me. I know the moments when the author probably thinks he got redeemed but I didn't buy it.

 

Currently I just finished the Furies of Calderon by Jim Butcher. Not as good as his Dresden books but still a good read.

 

Next will probably be Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson.

[bloomann]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Actually I've been quite disappointed overall with the SI FI Fantasy books I brought back this summer, when I'm in the states I tend to stock up on comics and books written in English, but so far everything I brought back has left me unsatisfied : Micheal Moorcock's Skrayling Tree or the adventures of a group of albinos traveling across an America before Columbus discovered it, it just rambled in all directions and wasn't very interesting... Fredreck Pohl's the coming of the quantum cats, not bad but not that good either... Austin Grossman's Soon I will be invincible, it had it's moments, for example the first chapter and Dr Impossibles take on things, the first super fight is also rousing, but the characters never go beyond their contrived archetypes, frustrating.. Also DR Impossible goes on and on about how much of a genius he is but tells his story using idioms a forlorn love struck 18 might use, the end is also a let down but I'll give Grossman 3 stars for the effort.

I'm just mad that I opted for these books and didn't buy the huge Conan omnibus that recently came out. Maybe next summer...

[Vondy]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

I'm having a hard time with the fantasy genre. It seems fairly impoverished at present. I've been starting reads and not finishing them. A few examples:

 

Bernard Cornwall's Saxon Series. This one was recommended to me because I like "hard fantasy" and good historical novels. I started the first one, got through several chapters, and quit. Its a period piece (meaning the setting is historical and happens with the backdrop of historical events, but its not trying to be a historical novel). The history is solid, the plot is boilerplate, the characters are typical, the writing is clean without being noteworthy. Its a professional work. But it didn't grab my imagination. I kept finding other things to do. It didn't inspire me to put it back up.

 

Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Legacy series. I know! What was I doing reading it? The first one was sent to me by a friend and I opened it and started reading it blind. The writing is solid. The plot and characters are well conceived. The world is rationalized (for the most part). And the sex isn't what put me off. It was integral to character and plot. I admit twisting elements of Jewish apochrypha and slapping on Catholic bits to create a westernized near eastern sacred sexuality religion left me cold. And I didn't find myself investing in the protagonist. But I could have lived with it were it not for one thing: the pacing. This book is slow. It drags. Its like wading through molasses. I got bored. I quit.

 

Look, if either of these books are your cup of tea, I say more power to you. I'm not trashing your tastes. Its just that they weren't to my taste. I have a hard time finding fantasy that fits my sensibilities and is well written. I'll keep trying....

[Susano]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Actually I've been quite disappointed overall with the SI FI Fantasy books I brought back this summer, when I'm in the states I tend to stock up on comics and books written in English, but so far everything I brought back has left me unsatisfied : Micheal Moorcock's Skrayling Tree or the adventures of a group of albinos traveling across an America before Columbus discovered it, it just rambled in all directions and wasn't very interesting... Fredreck Pohl's the coming of the quantum cats, not bad but not that good either... Austin Grossman's Soon I will be invincible, it had it's moments, for example the first chapter and Dr Impossibles take on things, the first super fight is also rousing, but the characters never go beyond their contrived archetypes, frustrating.. Also DR Impossible goes on and on about how much of a genius he is but tells his story using idioms a forlorn love struck 18 might use, the end is also a let down but I'll give Grossman 3 stars for the effort.

I'm just mad that I opted for these books and didn't buy the huge Conan omnibus that recently came out. Maybe next summer...

 

I liked Soon I Will Be Invincible myself, minding it to be a fun romp. And to be fair, it's also Grossman's first book.

[Vondy]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Here's an example of what I want to read:

 

1. Take Harn

2. Remove Annoying Tolkein Elements

3. Rationalize Religion

4. Integrate Subtle Noir/Hardboiled Sensibilities

5. Style ala James Ellroy/Dashiell Hammett

 

A series of short stories linked by character, theme, or plot; or a dark opera of the kaldoric succession crisis of shakespearean magnitude would do it.

[teh bunneh]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Covenent's deal is that, throughout most of the trilogy, he's certain that he's in a fever dream. He does horrible things (like raping Lena) because... well, he's in a dream. Who hasn't done things in a dream that they'd never even consider in the real world? He believes that his actions are without consequence. He just lets everyone else drag him along because he feels that he has no investment in the world -- it's all just a soap bubble that will pop the minute he wakes up. This world is fake, but in the real world he knows that he's just suffered a terrible accident, so he's less concerned about what happens to these dream-figments than he is about waking up so that he can, you know, call for an ambulance or something.

 

But along the way, he begins losing his conviction that The Land is just a figment of his imagination. He witnesses acts of amazing heroism and sacrifice, as well as great depravity, and it starts to have an effect on him. He learns that even if The Land isn't real, it's still important, and what he does in it is also important. By the end of the third book, he's willing to make his own sacrifice to save it (even though he's still not 100% convinced that it's not just a dream).

 

It helps to think of The Land and all its people as metaphor, as splintered aspects of Covenent's own personality (which ties into the "Is this really real or just my brain making it all up?" aspect of Covenent's journey). Lord Foul is so powerful in part because he represents the most dominant part of Covenent -- his own despair. And his eventual victory over Lord Foul is actually a victory over himself. He embraces those aspects of his own personality that are good (Morham's resolute steadfastness, Lena's unconditional love, Foamfollower's unquenchable joy, and so forth) and rejects the despair that has ruled his life for years.

 

But, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they have to like the book. It's certainly not for everyone. I'm just suggesting that there's another way to read it, which makes sense of the question, "Why's Covenent such a little c***?

[Susano]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Covenent's deal is that' date=' throughout most of the trilogy, he's [b']certain[/b] that he's in a fever dream. He does horrible things (like raping Lena) because... well, he's in a dream. Who hasn't done things in a dream that they'd never even consider in the real world? He believes that his actions are without consequence. He just lets everyone else drag him along because he feels that he has no investment in the world -- it's all just a soap bubble that will pop the minute he wakes up. This world is fake, but in the real world he knows that he's just suffered a terrible accident, so he's less concerned about what happens to these dream-figments than he is about waking up so that he can, you know, call for an ambulance or something.

 

But along the way, he begins losing his conviction that The Land is just a figment of his imagination. He witnesses acts of amazing heroism and sacrifice, as well as great depravity, and it starts to have an effect on him. He learns that even if The Land isn't real, it's still important, and what he does in it is also important. By the end of the third book, he's willing to make his own sacrifice to save it (even though he's still not 100% convinced that it's not just a dream).

 

It helps to think of The Land and all its people as metaphor, as splintered aspects of Covenent's own personality (which ties into the "Is this really real or just my brain making it all up?" aspect of Covenent's journey). Lord Foul is so powerful in part because he represents the most dominant part of Covenent -- his own despair. And his eventual victory over Lord Foul is actually a victory over himself. He embraces those aspects of his own personality that are good (Morham's resolute steadfastness, Lena's unconditional love, Foamfollower's unquenchable joy, and so forth) and rejects the despair that has ruled his life for years.

 

But, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they have to like the book. It's certainly not for everyone. I'm just suggesting that there's another way to read it, which makes sense of the question, "Why's Covenent such a little c***?

 

That makes a lot of sense... but I'll admit, after reading Chronicles 1-6 so long ago, I never felt strongly about re-reading them... and had no interest in 7-9.

 

However, I will admit it's an interesting world, and ripe for an RPG treatment (there's a lot going in in The Land and it has a distinctive magic system).

[lapsedgamer]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

I don't know I've always been leery of reading a comic book character in novel form. I mean taking written work and turning it into...written work. With so many strong recommendations' date=' maybe I'll check it out.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I never will. The two just don't really mesh that well. Comics are comics and novels are novels. Superheroes are best served by comics, and very occasionally film. I wouldn't rush to read about a true four color hero in novel format. There are some modern takes on superpowers that were well done in novel or short story form (I'm thinking Wild Cards), and there are comics that are literary (I'm thinking Watchmen), but Spider-Man or Superman don't scream out for a prose treatment IMO.

[csyphrett]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Covenent's deal is that' date=' throughout most of the trilogy, he's [b']certain[/b] that he's in a fever dream. He does horrible things (like raping Lena) because... well, he's in a dream. Who hasn't done things in a dream that they'd never even consider in the real world? He believes that his actions are without consequence. He just lets everyone else drag him along because he feels that he has no investment in the world -- it's all just a soap bubble that will pop the minute he wakes up. This world is fake, but in the real world he knows that he's just suffered a terrible accident, so he's less concerned about what happens to these dream-figments than he is about waking up so that he can, you know, call for an ambulance or something.

 

But along the way, he begins losing his conviction that The Land is just a figment of his imagination. He witnesses acts of amazing heroism and sacrifice, as well as great depravity, and it starts to have an effect on him. He learns that even if The Land isn't real, it's still important, and what he does in it is also important. By the end of the third book, he's willing to make his own sacrifice to save it (even though he's still not 100% convinced that it's not just a dream).

 

It helps to think of The Land and all its people as metaphor, as splintered aspects of Covenent's own personality (which ties into the "Is this really real or just my brain making it all up?" aspect of Covenent's journey). Lord Foul is so powerful in part because he represents the most dominant part of Covenent -- his own despair. And his eventual victory over Lord Foul is actually a victory over himself. He embraces those aspects of his own personality that are good (Morham's resolute steadfastness, Lena's unconditional love, Foamfollower's unquenchable joy, and so forth) and rejects the despair that has ruled his life for years.

 

But, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they have to like the book. It's certainly not for everyone. I'm just suggesting that there's another way to read it, which makes sense of the question, "Why's Covenent such a little c***?

 

That's an interesting take on things. Another comment that I have read is that he raped the girl because the land gave him back sensation after suffering from leprosy.

 

My memory, clouded by years and other books, is that Covenant was an a-hole before he got his leprosy, became a worse a-hole after he got his leprosy, and let that carry over and get worse when he woke up in the land and everyone is telling him he needs to be a hero instead of a whiny piece of crap. Only when Foul actually starts beating him down, does Covenant say I don't have to take this.

 

The second book set is the same way. Only at the very end does Covenant try to fix the one tree and save the day. Until then he's a moaner that no one likes and wishes they didn't have to deal with.

CES

[Doc Democracy]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

That's an interesting take on things. Another comment that I have read is that he raped the girl because the land gave him back sensation after suffering from leprosy.

 

My memory, clouded by years and other books, is that Covenant was an a-hole before he got his leprosy, became a worse a-hole after he got his leprosy, and let that carry over and get worse when he woke up in the land and everyone is telling him he needs to be a hero instead of a whiny piece of crap. Only when Foul actually starts beating him down, does Covenant say I don't have to take this.

 

The second book set is the same way. Only at the very end does Covenant try to fix the one tree and save the day. Until then he's a moaner that no one likes and wishes they didn't have to deal with.

CES

 

The whole sequence has to be read in the context of his leprosy. Successful novelist (possibly nice guy, nice wife with child - all a bit vague and fuzzy) gets leprosy. Wife leaves him, takes child and he gets depressed. now leprosy and depression are poor relatives - you dont take care of yourself and so dont notice bruises etc which, with leprosy, result in bits of you rotting and falling off.

 

After losing two fingers due to this kind of thing, he gets his head round his disease, learns to live as an outcast in his local community and learns how to survive. That does not make him a nice person but he has to be independent of people because in modern society the leper is still an outcast. When he suffers a head injury and wakes up in the Land then this is immediate wish fulfillment. He has feeling back - he can get better. It is fantasy that is dangerous to himn because if he does not keep himself grounded in the real world he will not survive, his leprosy will destroy him. The rape is early in the book - he has feeling back the girl is the representation of everything that is dangerous to him (it was her who healed him using hurtloam) and so he lashes out at this fantasy and everything in it.

 

It is just as easy to read this as a tortured and diseased man fighting with the fantasies in his head to allow himself to survive as it is to focus on the upfront fantasy story.

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

Here's an example of what I want to read:

 

1. Take Harn

2. Remove Annoying Tolkein Elements

3. Rationalize Religion

4. Integrate Subtle Noir/Hardboiled Sensibilities

5. Style ala James Ellroy/Dashiell Hammett

 

A series of short stories linked by character, theme, or plot; or a dark opera of the kaldoric succession crisis of shakespearean magnitude would do it.

 

My problem with fantasy is the absolute requirement by publishers that it be epic trilogies. Every fantasy series seems to be predicated on various types of people coming together to save the world - still milking the LotR formula.

 

If I now get even a hint that a story is a fantasy epic in three (or more) parts, I refuse to buy it. I only get such things when others buy me presents (and then I have to read it - would be rude not to! :-) )

 

I would love to have the short story route involving people in life or death situations that do not necessarily involve the survival of the Kingdom or the World using decvent fantasy tropes, intersting exploration of the use of magic on society etc. I would even read series of these but they need not involve the same people, the same stories or even the same author! Kind of like the shared world stuff for Sanctuary.

 

 

Doc

[Vondy]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

My problem with fantasy is the absolute requirement by publishers that it be epic trilogies. Every fantasy series seems to be predicated on various types of people coming together to save the world - still milking the LotR formula.

 

If I now get even a hint that a story is a fantasy epic in three (or more) parts, I refuse to buy it. I only get such things when others buy me presents (and then I have to read it - would be rude not to! :-) )

 

I would love to have the short story route involving people in life or death situations that do not necessarily involve the survival of the Kingdom or the World using decvent fantasy tropes, intersting exploration of the use of magic on society etc. I would even read series of these but they need not involve the same people, the same stories or even the same author! Kind of like the shared world stuff for Sanctuary.

 

 

Doc

 

I don't like trilogies, either. I prefer books, even if epic in theme, to be self contained plot and story-arc wise. Which is not to say a saga about the same characters and themes bothers me. But a book should be a self-contained read. You've got the story. If you liked the characters, setting, milieu, and themes you might read a different story about them, overall you don't need multiple books to get the series of events that form the novel's plot.

[Susano]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

The epic trilogies comes (I hear) from The Lord of the Rings being so thick that is was cut into three sections of two books each (technically it's one big book, or six smaller ones.)

[Vondy]

Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...

 

The epic trilogies comes (I hear) from The Lord of the Rings being so thick that is was cut into three sections of two books each (technically it's one big book' date=' or six smaller ones.)[/quote']

 

Which is great from the perspective of someone who had that much to say from the outset. You cut up the whole work to publish it. But then, because it succeeded publishers have started saying write this much every time even if the story doesn't merit it, or would work better as one volume, or a series of shorter format stories.