novi Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 Is there an official limit on how much Striking Appearance you can get out of Makeover in the Champions Universe? I didn't find any answers searching for Makeover in this forum, rules question, or system discussion. The highest value I found was +3 for Menton. I ask because I have a player who is going to ask, and I'm not sure what the answer should be. Any suggestions or ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Teriaca Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 +1 level of Striking Apperance only. Anything more and you need to buy levels of Striking Apperance. Grailknight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Teriaca Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 On the good side, that free level of Striking Apperance does double duty. If your shape is considered "pretty" you get the "beautiful" bonus, ugly you get the "ugly" bonus. (If you want more, buy separate Striking Apperance and link it to Shapeshift. But to get the full effect you should buy it twice, one for "beautiful/handsome", another for "ugly/unsettling'.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 The book says up to the standard the GM defines for the campaign. It gives the example of the GM defining +5 and states that would mean they cannot get +6. So, this is going to be an ask your GM question. Personally, I would probably stick with the +5 limit in most campaigns. I would also limit it to the amount of striking appearance what they are duplicating has. The limit of +1 is for those who did not purchase the makeover adder. Shapeshift cost END to maintain and in order to get the striking appearance they need to use their full shapeshift. By default, you can shift into a single form, being able to take more forms increases the cost. It can get fairly expensive. novi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauntlet Posted October 3 Report Share Posted October 3 Still, it is not a bad thing to purchase things linked to your shapeshift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 11 hours ago, Stanley Teriaca said: On the good side, that free level of Striking Apperance does double duty. If your shape is considered "pretty" you get the "beautiful" bonus, ugly you get the "ugly" bonus. (If you want more, buy separate Striking Apperance and link it to Shapeshift. But to get the full effect you should buy it twice, one for "beautiful/handsome", another for "ugly/unsettling'.) Variable SFX is a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Teriaca Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 13 minutes ago, Grailknight said: Variable SFX is a thing. Yep. But is it legal to buy a power advantage to a talent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Stanley Teriaca said: Yep. But is it legal to buy a power advantage to a talent? I'd rule yes in this case. If it really bothers you, just buy it as extra PRE with a -1/2 Limitation and Variable SFX. Edited October 4 by Grailknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Teriaca Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 46 minutes ago, Grailknight said: I'd rule yes in this case. If it really bothers you, just buy it as extra PRE with a -1/2 Limitation and Variable SFX. It doesn't bother me at all. I would allow it myself. I just ponder RAW stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novi Posted October 4 Author Report Share Posted October 4 But doctor, I am the GM. I'm the decider, and I'm not sure where to set it. Was hoping to see if other people had advice on how much Striking Appearance to allow in a game.. On further consideration, this is a really poorly titled thread with a badly worded question. I was apparently quite tired when I posted last night. ☹️ Should I start a new thread, or just edit it to better ask my real question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 Talents, skills and other game elements can also be considered powers. Hero System is less about RAW than other systems. Of you look in Hero Designer under powers it includes characteristics, perks, skills and talents. Simon is usually very strict on following the rules when it comes to Hero Designer. Anything questionable it is usually a good idea to check with the GM, but that goes for a lot more than just cases like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 On 10/2/2024 at 7:52 PM, novi said: Is there an official limit on how much Striking Appearance you can get out of Makeover in the Champions Universe? I didn't find any answers searching for Makeover in this forum, rules question, or system discussion. The highest value I found was +3 for Menton. I ask because I have a player who is going to ask, and I'm not sure what the answer should be. Any suggestions or ideas? Don’t start a new thread. PRE is just another stat. It really does not matter how the PRE is bought; what matters is having a reasonable limit. Like any stat is allowed to go too high it can beak the game. How high do you allow characters to buy STR or DEX? Treat PRE the same way but include striking appearance in that a well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Teriaca Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) 8 hours ago, novi said: But doctor, I am the GM. I'm the decider, and I'm not sure where to set it. Was hoping to see if other people had advice on how much Striking Appearance to allow in a game.. On further consideration, this is a really poorly titled thread with a badly worded question. I was apparently quite tired when I posted last night. ☹️ Should I start a new thread, or just edit it to better ask my real question? I would limit it to 1 level of "free" Striking Appearance to be safe, but also allow "bonus" Striking Apperance to match any mimic form's 'natural' Striking Apperance. Like say your shape shifter is copying Hiddious. And he seen him unmasked. He can copy his 10 levels of Striking Appearance "Ugly", but only when copying him. It's allowable because it is not an all ways thing. (Actuary that does depend of the writeup, since old Hiddious is no longer an official part of the CU. I seen a writeup with 10 levels of Striking Appearance "ugly", only when mask is removed, and writeup where he doesn't have any Striking Appearance at all.) Does it make sense? Actually yes. You are copying the appearance of an ugly supervillain with a reputation of violence against beautiful things after all. (If your doing someone like Marvel's Copycat, you'll need more then the Shapeshift power. You also need a VVP which only mimic the natural powers of the target mimicked.) Edited October 4 by Stanley Teriaca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) Striking appearance is supposed to boost characters PRE, not totally replace it. A character like Hideous should have a decent PRE in addition to striking appearance. I would be very hesitant to allow a character to purchase 10 levels in striking appearance. When I first started playing Champions a guy I knew created a character called The Ghost. All the character had was desolidification that was always on and a 200+ PRE. He was rolling a base of 40d6 PRE attacks. So, all he had to do was show up and say Boo and the villain was reduced to a quivering heap. That type of character tends to kill a campaign. Shapeshifting with the makeover adder only gets you the striking appearance bonus, not the base PRE. Edited October 4 by LoneWolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 (edited) I think someone who buys Shape shift should be allowed to buy Variable Special Effect on their Striking Appearance (you may even insist on it) Edited October 4 by dmjalund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 Makeover already gives you the ability to gain more than 1 level of striking appearance. Why do they need to purchase more striking appearance? Too much striking appearance can unbalance the campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Teriaca Posted October 4 Report Share Posted October 4 5 minutes ago, LoneWolf said: Makeover already gives you the ability to gain more than 1 level of striking appearance. Why do they need to purchase more striking appearance? Too much striking appearance can unbalance the campaign. Depends on the GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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