Argent

[Lord Liaden]

43 minutes ago, Stanley Teriaca said:

Hive? In the comic books were they a cult led by Brother Blood?

 

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/H.I.V.E._(New_Earth)

[Lord Liaden]

49 minutes ago, Steve said:

Actually, I could see value in providing GM advice on how to use ARGENT in different ways as an “evil corporation” template, such as how to tweak it to be more like Roxxon or Lexcorp.

AIM or HIVE would seem to be more like modified versions of VIPER or maybe DEMON.

 

Modification suggestions sound like a good idea to me. In fact, Champions Online utilizes a modified version of ARGENT which was never revealed to be a criminal organization. It still operates out in the open under its own name in the United States, although its questionable activities are covert, at least in theory. Yet it also has armed and costumed agents that commit crimes and get beaten up by superheroes; but CO isn't exactly a subtle, or necessarily logical setting.

 

VIPER and DEMON have been around so long and developed so extensively that they also have become distinct entities. DEMON in particular resembles no comic-book supernatural cult that I can think of.

[Steve]

I could see alternate versions of ARGENT used in a variety of settings, but I suspect it would be best used in a Champions or Dark Champions setting. Cyberpunk is another fun possibility.

 

I suppose you could do a fantasy version of ARGENT as a type of trade or mercantile guild. The Rokugan setting used in the Legend of the Five Rings RPG had a pretty awesome secret villain group that masqueraded as a merchant guild.

 

They could also survive into the Terran Empire or even beyond. ARGENT 3000 might be quite the interstellar megacorp a millennium from now in the CU.

[Ninja-Bear]

@Stanley Teriaca fwiw, I did have Beamline be the leader as the leader to a renewed KRONOS.

Edited July 21 by Ninja-Bear
I spammed the line three times! Oy Vey!

[Stanley Teriaca]

Just now, Ninja-Bear said:

@Stanley Teriaca fwiw, I did have Beamline be the leader as the leader to a renewed KRONOS.

@Stanley Teriaca fwiw, I did have Beamline be the leader as the leader to a renewed KRONOS.

@Stanley Teriaca fwiw, I did have Beamline be the leader as the leader to a renewed KRONOS.

Something so important @Ninja-Bear has to repeat it three times.

 

And I could repeat that three more times.

 

As it has been pointed out, Beenline can't officially be used. But that doesn't stop @tiger from making a replacement if he wants.

 

Like say the idea of my villain Professor Scorpious, the mad giant robot maker and doomsday weapon maker who is obsessed with the scorpion shape AND lost his legs in an accident AND is not bitter because of it.

[Ninja-Bear]

I thought I fixed it in editing 😂! Well Beamline I think likes it! And yeah just do a proxy for him.

[Stanley Teriaca]

17 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I thought I fixed it in editing 😂! Well Beamline I think likes it! And yeah just do a proxy for him.

How can the proxy be different then what the 'mainstream' Beamline is?

 

I like the multiform solution. His first form is your standard energy blaster. The second form is an 'energy ball', akin to Vanilla Ice and [Cream] from Jojo. Well, of course not litterlly of course, but his body becomes a fast moving ball which is dangerous to touch.

[DShomshak]

Reviewing LL's summary of ARGENT info, I see that while most attention gets paid to its hardtech products, it's involved in biotech as well. If you want some profitable but EW, THAT'S JUST WROOOONG! "products" for ARGENT, you could draw inspiration from the planet of Jackson's Hole in Lois McMaster Bujold's "Vorkosigan" series. One of the companies on the planet deals in a maximally nasty form of life extension: clone a person, grow the clone to young adulthood, then transplant the (very rich) old person's brain into the young body. Discard the clone's brain. No tissue rejection problems. Takes a long time to prepare, of course, ending in an extremely premeditated murder, but the Jacksonian company had no shortage of clients and I suspect neither would ARGENT. It might even be offered as a perk for the highest corporate officers.

 

Another Jacksonian company specialized in tissue engineering for, ah, how to put this delicately, "fantasies made flesh." As in Rule 34. The damnedest pimps in the Galaxy. Even more than the clone brain transplant, this is one where a GM is advised to know players' limits. But they are both advanced enough biotech to suit ARGENT's story niche, without being so advanced as to be the sort of indistinguishable-from-magic biotech of Teleios.

 

If you're going to steal, steal from the best, and Bujold is one of the best.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Lord Liaden]

With such life-prolonging procedures, some of the founders of ARGENT could still be alive and members of the Board of Directors, actively involved in running the "company" even after half a century. I can envision a small ruling cabal of predatory old men in younger bodies, almost divorced from their humanity after decades of wealth, power, and amoral experimentation.

 

Then again, that scenario could also set up a rejuvenation of ARGENT for this book, as the old guard, set in their outdated ways, are overthrown by younger people with a vision to take ARGENT in a new direction. Pursuant to that, I noticed that almost all the named officers of ARGENT in the books are men with very WASP-sounding names, suggesting a corporate culture of old-school elitism. Perhaps the new ARGENT would aim to be more inclusive at its upper levels, not for any social justice reasons (although that would make a good promotional line), but to make use of the most capable people from around the world.

[Steve]

Life-extension technology like described would invite a situation such as seen in the Takeshi Kovacs/Altered Carbon novels. Old people can quite ruthlessly hang on to power, especially if continued access to such technology is at stake, so a takeover by younger folks is not as easily done as some might think.

Edited July 21 by Steve

[tiger]

21 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Didn't Tiger say that Beamline is owned by Heroic Publishing?

It is my understanding that Enemies III characters are. Or I should say At least some are considered owned by HP, according to HP. I tend to lean toward the characters Dennis and David created are HPs.

Edited July 21 by tiger

[Lord Liaden]

4 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Reviewing LL's summary of ARGENT info, I see that while most attention gets paid to its hardtech products, it's involved in biotech as well.

 

 

There is a detail that can be considered "semi-official" which could be interesting to work into that side of ARGENT. Dr. Sebastian Poe, the founder of PSI, was betrayed by Medusa and Psimon in 1994, arrested, and sentenced in 1995 to twenty years in Stronghold. It's specifically noted that he didn't join the prison breakout in 2009, but obviously his sentence was up in 2015.

 

ARGENT would undoubtedly want the secret of Poe's invention, the "Psi Serum," which can greatly amplify the abilities of anyone with the potential for psionic power, sometimes to significant superhuman levels depending on that potential. It's a proven biotechnology and a guaranteed money-maker if marketed correctly. I could see the situation going a couple of possible directions. Either PSI persuades or coerces Dr. Poe to work for them upon his release, and he is still under their control today; or Poe eludes them immediately or after some time, and goes underground, setting himself up as an independent "power broker," but still pursued by ARGENT. Personally I see more potential for the character in the latter option, but in relation to a book on ARGENT either one could work.

[tiger]

Some news, it seems that Jason has lost his marbles, and I'm allowed to do pretty much as I please. I tend to run my really crazy ideas by him of course, someone has to rein in the insanity.

[Ninja-Bear]

@Stanley Teriacaby proxy I meant a character similar to Beamline especially his science elitism over jocks. Change his powers a little too. It’s not like comic companies haven’t done this for years.

[Stanley Teriaca]

1 minute ago, Ninja-Bear said:

@Stanley Teriacaby proxy I meant a character similar to Beamline especially his science elitism over jocks. Change his powers a little too. It’s not like comic companies haven’t done this for years.

Yes. Defently. I suggested an "energy ball" form, and asked how various GMs would do it. I believe it would be like eating a Resess Peanut Butter Cup.

[Lord Liaden]

An alternate version of Beamline could be worked into ARGENT, or not. It's not like he would be a crucial component.

[Stanley Teriaca]

21 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

An alternate version of Beamline could be worked into ARGENT, or not. It's not like he would be a crucial component.

At the least, the Beamline proxy is someone who heirs Argent for time to time, or is an "indpendant empowered employee" who is hired from time to time. At best he is a card carrying member and one of the inner circle of the group.

 

If he is technacly one of the guys who make use of the group, then he doesn't necessary need to be more then a name somewhere. If he is considered a valued employee or such, then it might be good to write him up.

[tiger]

On 7/20/2024 at 3:39 PM, Stanley Teriaca said:

@tiger, will there be someone with an actual big brain? Or will that be too much on point? (If Argent is to AIM, what is to MODOK?)

How about a little brain in a humongous floating chair?

[DShomshak]

Among the various possible ways to run ARGENT, GMs might consider its decline and fall. I am inspired here by Boeing's recent troubles: a once world-class tech company that lately seems to have become inept. Some people attribute this to a change in corporate culture: For decades, engineers dominated the management, but in the last few decades it's been dominated by money men who don't actually know or care about airplanes, as such. (At least that's an account I once read.) So the engineering standards have slipped, resulting in problems like an autopilot that tries to crash the plane (twice successfully), or optional door locations whose plugs blow out in midflight.

 

For ARGENT, this would be a new corporate elite that just wants to push more product out the door, even if it's buggy. Heroes notice that the tech used by villains malfunctions more often -- sometimes catastrophically. For super-tech, the malfunctions might even be more dangerous to the world than the intended use! Villains notice, too. As ARGENT tech gets glitchier, and more customers become exasperated, heroes have a chance to penetrate ARGENT's secrecy and security. Even the governments that protect ARGENT might become leery of the partnership. If the company starts betraying customers and allies for quick profits, the end is surely near.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Mr. R]

2 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Among the various possible ways to run ARGENT, GMs might consider its decline and fall. I am inspired here by Boeing's recent troubles: a once world-class tech company that lately seems to have become inept. Some people attribute this to a change in corporate culture: For decades, engineers dominated the management, but in the last few decades it's been dominated by money men who don't actually know or care about airplanes, as such. (At least that's an account I once read.) So the engineering standards have slipped, resulting in problems like an autopilot that tries to crash the plane (twice successfully), or optional door locations whose plugs blow out in midflight.

 

For ARGENT, this would be a new corporate elite that just wants to push more product out the door, even if it's buggy. Heroes notice that the tech used by villains malfunctions more often -- sometimes catastrophically. For super-tech, the malfunctions might even be more dangerous to the world than the intended use! Villains notice, too. As ARGENT tech gets glitchier, and more customers become exasperated, heroes have a chance to penetrate ARGENT's secrecy and security. Even the governments that protect ARGENT might become leery of the partnership. If the company starts betraying customers and allies for quick profits, the end is surely near.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 

Yes please!

[Lord Liaden]

ARGENT has experienced some significant reversals in the past, like their failed coup attempt in Guamanga that crippled their Central American operations, and the massive data breach from the capture of Interface. The ensuing chaos could have resulted in local branches of ARGENT splitting off from the main corporation, or others arising to fill a particular regional or technological gap, and becoming limited rivals to the corporation for criminal scientific services, past or current. Possibilities which Hero Games probably still have the rights to include Ninja-Bear's beloved KRONOS, which IIRC was based in the former West Germany; and the International Scientific Elite (ISE) mentioned in the old 3E Gadgets! supplement (which I adapted for my own games). I see particular potential for gap-filling in a modified version of Cyborgs Incorporated, from the 4E VIPER source book. The current published CU has several villainous genetic engineers, but nobody who specializes in bionic augmentation.

[Rich McGee]

On 7/21/2024 at 1:07 PM, DShomshak said:

...you could draw inspiration from the planet of Jackson's Hole in Lois McMaster Bujold's "Vorkosigan" series.

Worth noting the aside from the deeply disturbing "product lines" mentioned, Jackson's Whole (it's spelled with a "w" - you made me look it up to be sure) also dabbled in more combat effective geneering, with Taura being an extreme example and the only surviving prototype of what was considered a failed experiment.  Her introductory description went like this:

 

"The huge rippling shadow struck out of nowhere, at incredible speed... Miles first saw the fangs as they bit and tore and buried themselves in the rat's tissues. They were functional fangs, not just decorative, set in a protruding jaw, with long lips and a wide mouth; yet the total effect was lupine rather than simian. A flat nose, ridged, powerful brows, high cheekbones. Hair a dark matted mess. And yes, fully eight feet tall, a rangy, tense-muscled body."

 

Chimerical biotech super-soldier programs would fit the biotech side of Argent as well, and of course the supers genre has a long history of people having powers based on animal traits.

Edited July 28 by Rich McGee

[Lord Liaden]

Yep, we already have one official product of ARGENT attempting to mutate a human using alligator genes, Al the Alligator Man, who dwells in San Sebastian Swamp outside Vibora Bay. ARGENT has also been studying Dr. Moreau's Manimals on Monster Island as a corollary to their "hunting preserve" there.

 

BTW Monster Island p. 94 briefly mentions another rival corporation to ARGENT, known as "Harpco," which competes with them quite aggressively and ruthlessly, up to life-threatening sabotage. Harpco could make a decent background or historical element; perhaps as one of those spinoffs from ARGENT I suggested earlier.

[DShomshak]

Discussion of Jackson's Whole (yes, I forgot the 'W' before; the planet shouldn't be confused with Jackson Hole, Wyoming) prompted me to listen to the audiobook of "Labyrinth" again, and I thought that Dr. Canaba, one of the scientists who created Taura the super-soldier, could be a good model for an ARGENT scientist -- one who now feels disgust at his employment. Let's pull out the dead tree version to quote the relevant passage:

 

Quote

"Happy," Canaba snorted. "God..." he shook his head wearily, inhaled decisively. "I never came here for the money. I came here because I could do research I couldn't do anywhere else. Not hedged round with outdated legal restrictions. I dreamed of breakthroughs... but it became a nightmare. The freedom became slavery. The things they wanted me to do...! Constantly interrupting the things I wanted to do. Oh, you can always find someone to do anything for money, but they're second-raters. These labs are full of second raters. The very best can't be bought. I've done things, unique things, that Bharaputra won't develop because the profit would be too small, never mind how many people it would benefit--I get no credit, no standing for my work--every year, I see in the literature of my field galactic honors going to lesser men, because I cannot publish my results..." He stopped, lowered his head. "I doubtless sound like a megalomaniac to you."

 

"Ah..." said Miles. "You sound quite frustrated."

 

"The frustration," said Canaba, "woke me from a long sleep. Wounded ego--it was only wounded ego. But in my pride, I rediscovered shame. And the weight of it stunned me, stunned me where I stood. Do you understand? Does it even matter if you understand? Ah!" He paced away to the wall, and stood facing it, his back rigid.

 

Oh, heck, just read the whole story. It's well worth it for anyone.

 

Dean Shomshak

Edited July 28 by DShomshak

[Stanley Teriaca]

Who is the Canadian villainous cyborg creator? He might be a rival of Argent.