Ranged Martial Arts

[Mr. R]

My sort of campaign I have been working on has six HTH Martial Arts.  The First two are weaponless and are your classic soft redirection style and a very direct punching style.  The other four are dependent upon one handed weapon, dual wield, Sword and Board, and two handed weapons (see below)

 

Quote

Glorious Lotus
Cost Maneuver OCV DCV Notes Name
4 Martial Strike +0 +2 Str + 2d6 Shining Fist
5 Defensive Strike +1 +3 Str Three Fold Strike
4 Nerve Strike -1 +1 2d6 NND Pacifying Touch
5 Defensive Block +1 +3 Abort The Soft Wall
4 Martial Disarm -1 +1 +10 Str DA Sublime Removal
3 Martial Throw +0 +1 Str+v/5 Falls Prelude to Sleep
4 Martial Dodge +0 +5 Abort Splendid Protection

Splendid Fist
4 Fast Strike +2 +0 Str + 2d6 First Fist
5 Offensive Strike -2 +1 Str +4d6 Second Fist
4 Killing Strike -2 +0 1/2d6 HKA Third Fist
4 Martial Block +2 +2 Abort Intercepting Fist
4 Martial Dodge +0 +5 Abort Darting Fist
4 Martial Disarm -1 +1 +10 Str DA Removing Fist
3 Martial Grab -1 -1 +10 Str Grab Open Fist

Bee Style (one hand style weapons)
5 Darting Thrust ½ +1 +3 Strike
4 Nimble Lunge ½ +0 +2 Strike +2d6
3 Moving Thrust ½ -2 +2 Strike, Full Move
5 Retreating Parry ½ +1 +3 Block, Abort
4 Light Disarm ½ -1 +2 Disarm, +5 STR
4 Evade ½ +0 +5 Abort
Advanced Technique:
5 Elusive Fighting --- --- +1 +1 DCV Level vs All Attacks

Bear Style (Sword and board)
3 Shield In Lunge ½ +0 +1 Strike +2d6
3 Shield Out Lunge ½ +1 +0 Strike +2d6
5 Shield In Slash ½ -2 +1 Strike +4d6
5 Shield Out Slash ½ +1 -2 Strike +4d6
4 Shield Block ½ +2 +2 Block
4 Shield Wall ½ +0 +0 Block, +15 STR vs. Shove
3 Shield Rush ½ +0 +1 Shove +10 STR
Advanced Technique:
3 Shield Punch ½ +0 +0 STR +3d6N Punch

Bull Style (Twin Weapon)
4 Defend & Thrust ½ +0 +3 Strike
3 Feint & Thrust ½ +2 +1 Strike
4 Defend & Slash ½ +0 +2 Strike +2d6
3 Feint & Slash ½ +1 +0 Strike +2d6
5 Double Slash ½ +1 -2 Strike +4d6
4 Double Defend ½ +2 +2 Block
3 Pin Weapon ½ +0 +0 Bind, +10 STR
Advanced Technique:
4 Multi-Target Skill --- +2 --- +2 OCV with Sweep

Butterfly Style (Two handed Weapon)
4 Quick Thrust ½ +2 +2 Strike
4 Two-Hand Strike ½ +1 +1 Strike +2d6
5 Whirling Slash ½ +0 -1 Strike +4d6
4 Two-Hand Parry ½ +1 +1 Block, +10 STR vs Shove
4 Blade Spin ½ --- +4 Abort, +10 STR vs Disarm
3 Disarm Swing ½ +1 -2 Disarm, +10 STR
Advanced Technique:
6 Lightning Reaction--- --- --- +3 Lightning Reflexes

 

 

 

But I was thinking about adding a pair of ranged styles.

 

So has anyone used a RMA in their game?  How was it?

 

I would like maybe two styles, so any suggestions on how to differentiate them?

 

Or am I over thinking it?

 

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

Unfortunately I haven’t after all these years. I remember when it was first introduced and some of the group complained about them. I did however used a RMA maneuver which I added in the villains Iron Hoop style. (You can have Ranged and Normal together in one style). I think I gave him the Basic Shot. It was useful. But I only have extremely limited experience with them. Might I suggest a dagger/assassin art where you have normal maneuvers and perhaps a ranged maneuver or two?

[DShomshak]

I have never used RMAs (and it's been decades since I ran any Fantasy HERO), but the two obvious choices would seem to be some form of Zen Archery and a Throwing Master MA. Nothing fancy, just "really good at using this class of weapons." But maybe magical extensions, or magical weapons that further extend the wielder's prowess (but you must know the MA already to gain the benefits).

 

Dean Shomshak

[Grailknight]

I've used ranged martial arts in both fantasy and supers. 

 

In both, it allows everyone become better without increasing the potency of the base power. Leaders among agents can use the weapons but just be more deadly. I've never been a big fan of just piling on levels, so this is a solution for me.

[JackValhalla]

I've got Strafe. He's a gunfighter whose martial arts used the pistol weapon element. Defensive Strike, Offensive Strike, Legsweep, Martial Block, Martial Disarm, Martial Flash, and Passing Strike. Just played it straight. He could shoot someone regular or shoot them really hard, he could shoot your legs out from under you, shoot attacks out of the air or disrupt a hand-to-hand attack, he could shoot weapons out of people's hands, he could use ricochets or muzzle flash to blind an opponent, and he could take shots while moving at his full speed. Strafe also has the weapon element: motorized vehicles, and he can use his martial arts with a car too. It's a very interesting build for heroes to deal with.

[GDShore]

I have used a Ranged Martial Art in my campaigns from the start, I found however that for the most part, special maneuvers do not work. The basic rules allow a ranged martial artist to perform above reality. With a speed of "4", an archer can begin to engage an opponent at 100 meters, assuming that the target is also "4" speed they will at the end of one turn, have closed the distance to the archer by approximately 1/2, having endured 4 incoming shots. Now, the range modifier (more on that later) will kill accuracy at the 100 meter range. So using a long bow at 50" (100 m) gives you a -12/13 to hit a stationary target, One of my first group was a mathmetician, he number crunched as he breathed, he showed that if you put points into OCV an expenditure of 36 points it negated the range modifier penalty, OCV = +12 range modifier at 48" = -12. If you bought Tracking Shot (cp 5 = +3 OCV), a maneuver from my archer martial art, (5cp = =3 OCV) At the end of 1 rnd. of combat the target would be at 24" range, still a -6 rng. penalty however you would now have a +6 OCV with the tracking shot, you have a +9. If you use the aimed shot/hit location table, a head shot subtracts 4, taking your OCV to +5, if you had a dex. of 18 your basic OCV is 14, +5 = 19 to hit. He claimed that he should be able to do "EYE SHOTS"  with afurther -3 penalty, giving a to hit of 16to score on an eye at 48 meters. He ascerted that he had been to ywo tournaments that year in which a man sized, man shaped target had been used in which the target was supposed to chain and plate with a full helm. The eye slots were 2 cm. wide 3 cm. long sepated by 2 cm. During the tournament the superior-elite archers at 40 meters were dropping 3-4 arrows into the slots (one of them did 5), at 30 meters 4-5 hits (2 did 6) at 20 meters all 6 arrows were in the slots. (2 superior archers, 4 elite's) His contention was that it was physically possible to do so, I could not argue with his contention, as I had run both tourney's. My origional martial arts package had cost (for full) 56 points, his cost 41 points for a more accurate archer. I scrapped my origional package and developed a more comprehensive package. As follows:

Archer                             - cost - familiarity with one weapon, rg. mod as per weapon, damage as per weapon, OCV +0, DCV -2, 

Bowman                          - cost - 5cp, (one weapon, +1 all bows , +2 all crossbows) , +1 to rg. mod (3" to 4", 4" to 5", ect.), damage as per weapon, OCV +1, DCV -1.

Master Archer                - cost 10cp, (one weapon, +1 all bows, +2 all crossbows), +3 to rg. mod (3" to 6", 4" to 7", ect.), damage as per weapon, OCV +3, DCV 0.

Grand Master Bowman - cost 15cp, ( one weapon, +1 all bows, +2 all crossbows) +3 to rg. mod., damage as per weapon, OCV +5, DCV + 2

Special manuevers -- Prepared Fire  -- 3cp (2arrows prepared, +1 - 3 arrows, +2 4 arrows).  no longer in weapons maneuvers.                   { can learn as an archer

                                     Rapid Fire        -- 5cp (2 arrows fire in same phase, +3 - 3 arrows in same phase). no longer in weapons maneuvers. { can learn as a bowman

                                     Tracking Shot -- 5cp  (you begin tracking in one phase and fire in second, +3 OCV.)                                                       { can learn as a master

                                      Increased Range -- 5cp (double range, +5 - Triple range -- [3" to 6". 4" to 8"])                                                               { triple range can be learned as a master

  These were based on actual, world experiance. THere is also a time in grade component for each class of archer, Archer 1 to 5 years, Bowman 6 to 10 years, Master Archer 11 to 15 years, Grand Master Bowman 16 to 20 years. You will note I do not impose a OCV penalty, on the rapid fire maneuver, again real world experiance. On my best day I could do 8-10 arrows with 6 in the gold, and 2-4 in the red. The best I ever saw was 25 arrows shot in the 30 seconds, with 19/20 in the gold the rest in the red. I saw this archer do this 4 times, I simply could never emulate his style. (also I have specific range/accuracy increase's for certain types of bows, (the Yumi - japanese asymetrical bow [it is a B---- to learn] is intrinsically more accurate {about 15%} and has greater range for same draw weight {about 20%} than a recurve and a little more for longbows.)

[Gauntlet]

I have had the following one I have allowed in Fantasy Hero games.

 

Bow Mastery

Cost     Maneuver
3           Quick Snap: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +2 DCV, Range +0, Strike
4           Final Pierce: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Range +0, Strike, +4 DC
5           Sight Pierce: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -1 DCV, Range +4, Strike
4           Disarm: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Range +0, Disarm, +3 DC to Disarm
4           Trip: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Range +2, v/5, Target Falls

[Ninja-Bear]

@GDShore I don’t doubt that someone hit an eye slot on a target however that doesn’t mean that that did happen often on purpose in medieval battles. Was the target moving? Was the target shooting back?  Is the archer a seasoned fighter? Adrenaline wrecks havoc on the human system. 

[DentArthurDent]

16 hours ago, GDShore said:

These were based on actual, world experiance.

This sounds amazing! I’d love to see a competition like this!

 

Is there anything similar with a moving target? Maybe on camera dolly tracks, sliding down a cable, towed by a RC vehicle, or on an electric gate?

[GDShore]

I do not know if they are still doing them but 30+ years ago we used to do this with a live target in armor and face protected with an open weave mesh. Starting from a 100 meters out they would advance on the archer at their own pace along a 2 meter wide corridor, one year, we had 11 elite archers and 22 superior and used up 8 tin and flanal boys before the winner was declared. (not me, chap from the west coast, great archer, now shooting in Elysium) We used 15 kg. draw bows and 3/4" dia. headed arrows We also created, once, a target on a track with a pulley system to roll the target towards the shooting line, scores were lower, except for those that waited until the target reached half-way, those that waited scored like they had at 40 meters. So to answere questions yes. 

Back in the day, between my 35th and 55th years I observed, adjudicated or competed in the combat archer championship, won twice the last time against the five time chanpion. I knew Gareth a very long time, he was deadly with that first shot but tended to fumble just a bit on the reload of his second. I watched him start his draw dropped and rolled to my left, he anticipated a roll but to the right, his arrow would have hit if I had. I came up to my knees nocked and drew doing so, loosed and hit him center mass a heart shot. So yeah, can do it under fire, truth is though, dodging only works on a one to one duel and is limited. If he had guessed to the left I was toast but I had used the technique twice during the tourney both times rolling right. He expected same and was wrong. 

[LoneWolf]

The big problem I see with the ranged martial arts is that there are so few ranged maneuvers that most ranged martial arts will basically the same.  The rules for creating new maneuvers also seem to be much more limited than those for HTH maneuvers.  The most obvious omission is the F move element.  It seems to me that a shot on the run type maneuver would be something very useful for a ranged martial art, but that does not seem possible with the current rules.

 

I would also allow some defensive abilities from the HTH maneuvers to be purchased with ranged martial arts.  A ranged martial art should be able to have dodge.  
 

[Lord Liaden]

I had a player in a Champions game built around psychokinetic powers, who bought Ranged Martial Art maneuvers with Telekinesis. It made TK more versatile and interesting to use.

 

I don't see why they couldn't be applied to relevant magic spells in a fantasy game. Perhaps as part of a unified magic style.

Edited July 14 by Lord Liaden

[Ninja-Bear]

5 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I had a player in a Champions game built around psychokinetic powers, who bought Ranged Martial Art maneuvers with Telekinesis. It made TK more versatile and interesting to use.

 

I don't see why they couldn't be applied to relevant magic spells in a fantasy game. Perhaps as part of a unified magic style.

That an interesting idea. I never thought of that!

[GDShore]

There is already an historical martial arts movement maneuver, called the "Parthian Shot". Defined more or les as: a shot released over the back of a horse, while that horse is galloping away from the target. It can be and was an extremely effective maneuver, the Persians (or more correctly, That portion of the Empire known as Parthia) were well known for it's use as were the Mongol's. (having reinvented it on their own and with a different archery tradition and bow) 

     The japanese also have a maneuver ahorse (I do not know what it was called) I have only seen this in exhibition, a Samurai will enter the killing ground at full gallop controlling the mount with only his knees and loose an arrow at each of "4" targets set approximately 25 meters apart from each other. The shooter is @ 25 meters off from the target line.

     I had occasion to try these once, 3 passes each, on the Parthian I scored just once in the 6 arrows i was able to loose (his wife would have been most displeased) and in the full charge I scored nought, with the "4" arrows I managed using my 'Magyar 22 kg. horsebow'. Gareth in the Parthian, scored 4 times out of 8, 1 knee, 2 chest and 1 neck. Richard another freind on the charge, scored 3 on his first pass, 1 on his second and 2 on the final (no hits on the Parthian) all of his hits were head hits. In fact he did better ahosre than afoot. 

[Gauntlet]

On 7/13/2024 at 10:55 PM, Lord Liaden said:

I had a player in a Champions game built around psychokinetic powers, who bought Ranged Martial Art maneuvers with Telekinesis. It made TK more versatile and interesting to use.

 

I don't see why they couldn't be applied to relevant magic spells in a fantasy game. Perhaps as part of a unified magic style.

 

Wouldn't you for Martial Arts with Telekinesis utilize standard HTH martial maneuvers rather than ranged ones?

[Lord Liaden]

We wanted to try mixing and matching.

[Gauntlet]

Honest, I truly believe that ranged martial arts are rather pointless. Almost all of what is available there can be created via skill levels.

[Ninja-Bear]

2 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

Honest, I truly believe that ranged martial arts are rather pointless. Almost all of what is available there can be created via skill levels.

Idk, Trip and Disarm at range? Using Standard maneuvers and CSLs? Not by RAW I think though I could be wrong.

[LoneWolf]

Those are about the only thing that cannot be done with skill levels.  That is likely to lead to a three-maneuver martial art with a disarm, a trip and probably a basic shot.  Doing so would allow you to use 3 pts skill levels.   Without more maneuvers with additional elements there is no reason to purchase more than those three maneuvers.  instead of taking more maneuvers you simply take 3 pt skill levels with those three maneuvers and use that to get the results you want.  

 

If the maneuvers and elements for a ranged martial art are limited to what is in the book, all ranged martial arts will end up being 3 maneuvers.  

[Gauntlet]

Of course a lot of these things can be done if you are utilizing hit locations. Need to trip them, call shot foot, need to disarm them, shoot for the focus.