Constant Powers and Sleeping

[MrAgdesh]

Years ago, I always used to assume that if a character went to sleep that any Constant Powers would switch off but Constant Powers say that they only switch off when the character is Stunned or Unconscious. Unconscious is largely defined within the rules as 'Knocked Out' where your STUN is reduced to zero and when you 'come to' your END is also set to zero. This led me to ask what a sleeping character's reserves of END and STUN are when they wake up - presumably not reduced if you've had a full night's rest (although you might be 'Flashed' by being awoken suddenly, you're rested as opposed to having been made unconscious by suffering trauma).

 

However, I just noticed this under Endurance Reserve (6E1 pg 205) 

 

"USING ENDURANCE RESERVE
An Endurance Reserve is “independent” of the character. Powers that draw END from an Endurance Reserve can keep doing so, and thus keep functioning, even if the character is Stunned, Knocked Out, asleep, or the like — the Reserve
doesn’t lose its END in those situations."  (Emphasis mine).

 

So, officially, your END (at least) is set to zero when you wake up from the unconsciousness of sleep?

[Doc Democracy]

I guess in any normal sleeping situation, normal stats, 20 END, 4 REC, SPD 2 then if you class post-segment 12 the moment you wake up, then you immediately get 4 END, another 4 six seconds later, 8 six seconds after that and you will be at full END within 18 seconds of opening your eyes, if you do not exert yourself.  It does not feel terribly unreal to me. 🙂

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Bit of a paradox, really.  Well spotted. Whilst you can keep drawing END from an END reserve, even if KO'd, it does not mean that the power works any differently (well, it does - see below): if you look at 6E2 106, under Knockout (and I'd include loss of consciousness for any reason, including voluntarily going to sleep) it states what when you are KO'd all powers that are not persistent turn off at the end of the segment.

 

END Reserve is a Persistent power, but the power it is fuelling need to persistent otherwise it turns off as above (again, see below).  That is a bit odd because powers that use END are automatically Constant (6E1 128). 

 

I think it is just an oversight in the rules: I'd not really see why a power can not use END and be made Persistent (that's not what we are talking here, obviously), but the effect of an END reserve is that it makes a Constant power Persistent whilst it uses END from the END reserve.   Specific rules trump general rules but I'm not sure I like it: you can make a power effectively Persistent by having it draw power from an END Reserve, no matter what the power costs, without having to pay for the advantage.  Effectively you're making END Persistent, from the costing (1 point gets you 4 END, which is 4 points with a +1/4 advantage).

 

I mean you can see how it would make sense: you turn on  a torch and it does not turn off if you are knocked out, until the battery runs out or someone else turns it off.  Does not mean I have to like how it is done: we have Fuel Charges for that.  It all seems very messy.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Years ago, I always used to assume that if a character went to sleep that any Constant Powers would switch off but Constant Powers say that they only switch off when the character is Stunned or Unconscious.

 

In game terms, what's the difference between being unconscious and being asleep?  Many different powers have been built to represent sleep by loss of stun.  In both cases (asleep or unconscious) you are 0 DCV and hit location penalties are halved.  In both cases, you take double stun from an attack.  A sleeping or unconscious mind has DMCV 0.  It doesn't say specifically but one presumes that waking up from sleep you are 1 STN and 1 END as well (or, as a kind GM, their REC score in both).

[MrAgdesh]

2 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

In game terms, what's the difference between being unconscious and being asleep?  Many different powers have been built to represent sleep by loss of stun.  In both cases (asleep or unconscious) you are 0 DCV and hit location penalties are halved.  In both cases, you take double stun from an attack.  A sleeping or unconscious mind has DMCV 0.  It doesn't say specifically but one presumes that waking up from sleep you are 1 STN and 1 END as well (or, as a kind GM, their REC score in both).

Well, the difference seems to be whether trauma has caused the unconsciousness or not.

 

Apart from the END reserve quote a quick search on 'Sleeping' in 6E1 doesn't bring up much to help but under Summon for example on Pg 291 "Specific Being" it does say;

 

"A Summoned specific being appears in his current condition at the time of Summoning. If he’s injured, he’ll be injured; if he’s sleeping or Knocked Out, he’s asleep or unconscious; and so forth."

 

Under DCV Modifiers table (6E2 Pg 37) Knocked Out and Sleeping are listed separately. Whilst they share common ground on MCV and Placed Shots they appear to be different. Hence a Sleeping Character getting a chance to wake up with a PER roll at -6 if somebody is sneaking up on them. 

 

I'm not so sure that you should be at zero end and zero stun after a good night's sleep. If so, what constitutes "a Good Night's Sleep"? 

 

Aside from the topic thread I'm interested in this for other game reasons. All of those Fantasy Hero scenarios where the GM says "Set up the First Watch" have somewhat more dramatic impact where those characters not on the watch wake up under attack.

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

Well, the difference seems to be whether trauma has caused the unconsciousness or not.

 

It comes down to this: what effects are used to simulate putting someone to sleep?  Drain, stun damage, ego attack, mind control, transform, even flash, etc.  As always with Hero it is about special effects and many ways to achieve it.  In the end, I don't see a distinction between asleep and unconscious.

[MrAgdesh]

Whilst I see what you’re saying, there’s a big difference between being roused from sleep and being brought back to consciousness from trauma, as I’m sure many can relate to here (military backgrounds, martial arts backgrounds etc). 
Coming out of unconsciousness by being roused/brought around leaves one feeling woozy, possibly nauseous, and not entirely “with it” hence the Hero System zeroing of your END and STUN presumably.
But feeling that way from waking up from regular sleep. I’d be visiting the doctor with my concerns.

 

(As an aside this is why I don’t like Sleep spells built as STUN reducing.)
 

 

[LoneWolf]

One thing to consider is that an END reserve is actually more expensive that buying END and Recovery.  Unlike normal END and REC, you have to buy from the ground up.   Buying the starting 20 END 6 REC (6 costs the same as 4) costs you 9 points.   The END in the reserve costs you 1 per 4 vs the 1 per 5 of normal END.  The REC seems cheaper but is not.  With normal END characters get a post 12 recovery in addition to being able to take a recovery.  So, the 2 SPD 4 REC character can gain back 12 END per turn.  If the character has a higher SPD, they have the potential to regain it even quicker.   This means that when you purchase an END reserve you need to purchase much higher REC.  In fact, the best way to purchase an END reserve is to buy enough END to last 1 full turn and a matching REC.   Buying a large END reserve with a low REC is way more expensive. Another drawback for the END reserve is that healing does not work on it.

 

When you factor in the extra cost of the END reserve you are not actually getting a better deal for a power that keeps working when you are unconscious or asleep. 
 

[Gauntlet]

17 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

One thing to consider is that an END reserve is actually more expensive that buying END and Recovery.  Unlike normal END and REC, you have to buy from the ground up.   Buying the starting 20 END 6 REC (6 costs the same as 4) costs you 9 points.   The END in the reserve costs you 1 per 4 vs the 1 per 5 of normal END.  The REC seems cheaper but is not.  With normal END characters get a post 12 recovery in addition to being able to take a recovery.  So, the 2 SPD 4 REC character can gain back 12 END per turn.  If the character has a higher SPD, they have the potential to regain it even quicker.   This means that when you purchase an END reserve you need to purchase much higher REC.  In fact, the best way to purchase an END reserve is to buy enough END to last 1 full turn and a matching REC.   Buying a large END reserve with a low REC is way more expensive. Another drawback for the END reserve is that healing does not work on it.

 

When you factor in the extra cost of the END reserve you are not actually getting a better deal for a power that keeps working when you are unconscious or asleep. 
 

 

I don't completely disagree with you but there are a couple of things to keep in mind. One, END Drains usually will not go against the END Reserver and if you run out of END on a Reserver it doesn't cost you STUN. But one of the problems is that in 6th Edition they lowered the cost of END but didn't lower the cost of END in a Reserver. In 5th edition it cost 1 point for each 5 END and 1 Point for each REC which was much more than the cost of the actual characteristics, but in 6th edition the costs are exactly the same. So in 5th Edition they can be a good idea but not so in 6th edition.

[LoneWolf]

Actually, according to the book adjustment powers that affect END and REC can affect END reserves.  In Fact, they treat the END and REC as if it were normal END (5 per point for END), so a drain END will drain at a higher rate than you paid for.  The GM can decide to change it and like anything will depend on special effect.  6E1 page 206.

 

As to the cost they did adjust it in 6th edition, it now cost more than normal END.  The cost for END in the reserve is 1 per 4 points not 1 per 5.  
 

 

@MrAgdesh Most people when they are woken up suddenly are usually a little disoriented and it takes a few seconds to fully wake up.   In 6th edition END and REC are cheap and a properly built character should have a high enough REC to be fully functioning in about a turn or less.  Looking at my last character my current character he has a 4 SPD 8 REC and 30 for END and STUN.  If waking up normally he would be fully functional in about 9 seconds (Assuming a post 12 recovery).  I don’t know about you, but it takes me longer than that to wake up in the morning.  

[Gauntlet]

26 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

Actually, according to the book adjustment powers that affect END and REC can affect END reserves.  In Fact, they treat the END and REC as if it were normal END (5 per point for END), so a drain END will drain at a higher rate than you paid for.  The GM can decide to change it and like anything will depend on special effect.  6E1 page 206.

 

As to the cost they did adjust it in 6th edition, it now cost more than normal END.  The cost for END in the reserve is 1 per 4 points not 1 per 5.

 

That is only in the case if you purchase the power to effect the Reserver, otherwise it will only effect regular END. The other option would be if you have the Reserver with the Unified Power limitation or if you have the Drain to effect multiple types of powers. But I did see that in 6th edition they make the reserve cost more, which pretty much makes it worthless. I would say that it should be 1 point for each 10 points of END.

[LoneWolf]

An Adjustment Power that affects END or REC can affect the END or REC of an Endurance Reserve as well as characters’ personal END and REC, unless the GM rules otherwise. 

 

The above section is what the book says on the page I listed.   Now you would need to specify which END you are draining or have the advantage allowing you to drain more than one thing if you want to drain both at the same time.  

[Gauntlet]

35 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

An Adjustment Power that affects END or REC can affect the END or REC of an Endurance Reserve as well as characters’ personal END and REC, unless the GM rules otherwise. 

 

The above section is what the book says on the page I listed.   Now you would need to specify which END you are draining or have the advantage allowing you to drain more than one thing if you want to drain both at the same time.  

 

That's what I was stating. You have to state that you are draining the Reserve. My main statement is agreeing with you that they made END Reserve rather useless in 6th edition.

[MrAgdesh]

57 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

@MrAgdesh Most people when they are woken up suddenly are usually a little disoriented and it takes a few seconds to fully wake up.   In 6th edition END and REC are cheap and a properly built character should have a high enough REC to be fully functioning in about a turn or less.  Looking at my last character my current character he has a 4 SPD 8 REC and 30 for END and STUN.  If waking up normally he would be fully functional in about 9 seconds (Assuming a post 12 recovery).  I don’t know about you, but it takes me longer than that to wake up in the morning.  

 Well, I can only go by my own experiences but I work in Emergency Services. If I'm on nights we can sleep at the firehouse. If the bells go down, I'm up, perhaps from deep REM sleep (not great) but throwing clothes on and rushing down to the appliance. Then, depending on the evening's runners and riders  I'm either driving the engine on blues or riding in the back of the cab probably donning BA (Breathing Apparatus). 

 

At no point in that 5-6 minutes of mobilisation do I feel like I'm taking a Recovery. Its a mad dash from the initial  adrenaline surge to being out the doors (takes years off your life apparently).

 

I also don't feel like I've come round after being knocked out. Been there, done that. It's very different.

 

To go back to the FH analogy and the party sleeping at night suddenly getting the watch shouting "ALARUM! WAKE UP! WE ARE UNDER ATTACK!!! I don't think that those heroic characters would be at 1 END or 1 STUN (or maybe their REC in both if its a generous GM) but much more. Maybe not full, in fact, maybe half?

 

 

That might be how I go with it. If you're woken up abruptly then half END & Half Stun. Full Night's Sleep then full amounts. A restless night's sleep (over-active thinking, nightmares, Mental Powers invading your dreamscape) then I might play around with some LTE loss and a need to rest properly for X hours ("I've just woken up, why am I so exhausted?!"

 

 

(Or maybe Lightsleep could convey some additional benefit?)

[Gauntlet]

I do believe that the END and STUN being the same is when the character recovers from being unconscious, not when waking up from sleep.

 

As for Light Sleep, I believe that it means that when you wake up you immediately fully wake up but if you don't have it you might take a phase or two to be fully up (probably need an EGO roll based on the situation).

Edited July 9 by Gauntlet

[LoneWolf]

Looking at how things work in Hero System you will get 2 recoveries when the alarm is sounded.  Combat starts in 12 so your phase 12 will be waking up (taking a recovery), right after that you get a post 12 recovery.  Someone who is in good shape is going to have more than the base 4 REC, especially if they have a higher SPD.   Any character that is able to engage in strenuous activity for at least a few minutes should have enough REC to cover the END they spend in a turn including movement or they will exhaust themselves.  So, most characters need a REC of at least (END used for STR + END used for movement) x SPD.  Assuming a 10-15 STR and normal movement a character with 3 SPD needs 6 REC, if you have a 4 SPD that means you need an 8 REC.  So, most Fantasy Hero characters will start out with at least 12-16 Stun and END.   

 

The other thing to consider is how fast paced the Hero System really is.  In games like D&D the turns are considerably longer than the phases in the Hero System.   Each phase represents about 1 second of time. Taking a recovery only takes a second.   
 

[unclevlad]

7 hours ago, Sean Waters said:

Bit of a paradox, really.  Well spotted. Whilst you can keep drawing END from an END reserve, even if KO'd, it does not mean that the power works any differently (well, it does - see below): if you look at 6E2 106, under Knockout (and I'd include loss of consciousness for any reason, including voluntarily going to sleep) it states what when you are KO'd all powers that are not persistent turn off at the end of the segment.

 

END Reserve is a Persistent power, but the power it is fuelling need to persistent otherwise it turns off as above (again, see below).  That is a bit odd because powers that use END are automatically Constant (6E1 128). 

 

I think it is just an oversight in the rules: I'd not really see why a power can not use END and be made Persistent (that's not what we are talking here, obviously), but the effect of an END reserve is that it makes a Constant power Persistent whilst it uses END from the END reserve.   Specific rules trump general rules but I'm not sure I like it: you can make a power effectively Persistent by having it draw power from an END Reserve, no matter what the power costs, without having to pay for the advantage.  Effectively you're making END Persistent, from the costing (1 point gets you 4 END, which is 4 points with a +1/4 advantage).

 

I mean you can see how it would make sense: you turn on  a torch and it does not turn off if you are knocked out, until the battery runs out or someone else turns it off.  Does not mean I have to like how it is done: we have Fuel Charges for that.  It all seems very messy.

 

 

Per 6E1 334, on Persistent.  A Persistent power that costs END maintains itself, even if the character's knocked out...so long as he has END to cover that cost.  

Getting KO'd reduces END to 0.  Getting END drained reduces END to 0.

 

Powers that use END are NOT automatically Constant, in any sense.  They can be made Persistent...and they darn sure can be Instant.

 

The point of an END Reserve is that it's not tied directly to the character.  That's why its discharge/recharge aren't linked to the character...so it's not zeroed on a KO, and it can't benefit from taking a Recovery, or from the character's SPD...its recharge rate is fixed.  (Note that the rules have never given an option to make END Reserve recovery move to per segment or per phase.)

 

The pricing on an END Reserve is tricky to deconstruct because there's interconnected advantages and disadvantages.  One thing that hasn't been mentioned, I think, is that the REC on an END Reserve doesn't apply to STUN...which is a sharp limitation.  There's a subtle advantage available too:  they're not subject to LTE, if the campaign uses that.  This most likely matters with movement, and most commonly flight and sometimes running, where you might well be using significant END for several hours.  If the per-turn END is > 1/2 your REC, the LTE is gonna hammer you...but as long as your END Reserve REC exceeds your per-turn END use, you can go forever.

 

I agree that in 6E, the END Reserve's rarely cost-effective...well, unless you're buying it on a focus.  It was surprising to me to work out that in 5E...it's sometimes *cheaper* to use an END Reserve...especially if you can balance the END use between personal END and the reserve, sensibly.  (30 STR, personal END.  4d6 HA and Teleport, END Reserve.)  It tends to hold when figured characteristics give you a pretty good baseline REC for STUN, and when your SPD is fairly high so your END use per turn is significant, because buying up personal END and REC in 5E is horrifyingly expensive.

[MrAgdesh]

14 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Looking at how things work in Hero System you will get 2 recoveries when the alarm is sounded.  Combat starts in 12 so your phase 12 will be waking up (taking a recovery), right after that you get a post 12 recovery.  Someone who is in good shape is going to have more than the base 4 REC, especially if they have a higher SPD.   Any character that is able to engage in strenuous activity for at least a few minutes should have enough REC to cover the END they spend in a turn including movement or they will exhaust themselves.  So, most characters need a REC of at least (END used for STR + END used for movement) x SPD.  Assuming a 10-15 STR and normal movement a character with 3 SPD needs 6 REC, if you have a 4 SPD that means you need an 8 REC.  So, most Fantasy Hero characters will start out with at least 12-16 Stun and END.   

 

The other thing to consider is how fast paced the Hero System really is.  In games like D&D the turns are considerably longer than the phases in the Hero System.   Each phase represents about 1 second of time. Taking a recovery only takes a second.   
 

If combat starts on Phase 12 (GM decision) and the attackers have surprise (initiative) then you'll be taking at least 2xSTUN from any attack. If you're at 0 END 0 STUN when you sleep then you'll be KOed from this, maybe for quite some time. If your party member standing guard shouts the alarm, you succeed in waking up and get to act on your DEX prior to being attacked then you'd be (at most) your REC score in END and STUN. If you then declare a Recovery and get hit and damaged subsequently in that Phase then you'll only get the free Post Phase 12 recovery. In either example you will probably be Stunned. You don't sleep in armour after all (if you do then expect your STUN and END to get hit by LTE loss).

 

Being attacked at night, even maintaining a Watch, would be pretty much a massacre if you wake up at (at most) your REC in END and STUN. 

 

Whilst a D&D turn is longer (1 minute?), a Phase isn't one second. That's a Segment. Your Phase's length is determined by your Speed. A Phase for a normal human is 6 seconds. A hero is probably either 4 or 3 seconds.

 

In FH games that I've played we usually have 3 Watches during the night. I'd be inclined to rule that if you are asleep on the first and third watch (just dropping off, almost waking up) then you'd wake at full END and STUN. If you're asleep on the second watch then you'd be more disoriented and wake up at half values. 

(all this barring other effects like troubled sleep etc). 

[MrAgdesh]

14 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Per 6E1 334, on Persistent.  A Persistent power that costs END maintains itself, even if the character's knocked out...so long as he has END to cover that cost.  
 

I think you mean Stunned. It turns off if he's Knocked Out. 

[Sean Waters]

14 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Per 6E1 334, on Persistent.  A Persistent power that costs END maintains itself, even if the character's knocked out...so long as he has END to cover that cost.  

...

 

Yes.  True, well spotted.  A power that is Persistent can't remain Persistent and cost END so it becomes constant if it costs END (6E1 128) but, as you pointed out, a Constant power made Persistent can be Persistent and cost END  So if you wanted a Persistent power, say Mental Defence, to cost END and remain persistent you'd need to add Costs End (-1/2) and Persistent (+1/4), which is effectively -1/4 (the same as Non-Persistent, but with quite different effects). It would then still stop if you were KO'd but not if you were Stunned (or, arguably, asleep - see below).

 

That seems unnecessarily convoluted and asymmetric and it's a shame we can't just have all the rules in one place.

 

Still, your comment did get me thinking, in conjunction with Mr Agadesh's comments, perhaps the difference between voluntarily going to sleep and being KO'd is that sleep does not instantly reduce your End to 0 as you still have Stun, which is why you can wake up fully refreshed from sleep, but not from being knocked unconsciousness.  Maybe.  That would imply that a Constant power that uses END or has Reduced Endurance: 0 END is not turned off by falling asleep because you still have END and are still making Recoveries but arguably it is turned off when you go to sleep because Constant powers require 'maintaining' and if you are unconscious, for any reason, you're not able to maintain the power as this requires at least a degree of concentration.  Of course you may take a different view, but the game certainly anticipates that Constant powers are not constantly on because you have to turn them of deliberately turn them on as it mentions that you may be vulnerable to surprise attacks  with Constant power.  I mean,  why wouldn't you turn them on first thing and leave them on unless they were Obvious and you didn't want to draw attention?  This does imply that they are off when you sleep.  Certainly you can not maintain a Constant power if you are Stunned.

 

OTOH LS: Does not need to sleep is only 3 points and Limited power: Sleeps normally but can maintain Constant Powers while sleeping is probably worth -1, so that would only cost a point.  Effectively you're sleeping but a bit of your brain doesn't need to and keeps things ticking over.

 

 

[MrAgdesh]

2 hours ago, Sean Waters said:

 

Yes.  True, well spotted.  A power that is Persistent can't remain Persistent and cost END so it becomes constant if it costs END (6E1 128) but, as you pointed out, a Constant power made Persistent can be Persistent and cost END  So if you wanted a Persistent power, say Mental Defence, to cost END and remain persistent you'd need to add Costs End (-1/2) and Persistent (+1/4), which is effectively -1/4 (the same as Non-Persistent, but with quite different effects). It would then still stop if you were KO'd but not if you were Stunned (or, arguably, asleep - see below).

 

That seems unnecessarily convoluted and asymmetric and it's a shame we can't just have all the rules in one place.

 

Still, your comment did get me thinking, in conjunction with Mr Agadesh's comments, perhaps the difference between voluntarily going to sleep and being KO'd is that sleep does not instantly reduce your End to 0 as you still have Stun, which is why you can wake up fully refreshed from sleep, but not from being knocked unconsciousness.  Maybe.  That would imply that a Constant power that uses END or has Reduced Endurance: 0 END is not turned off by falling asleep because you still have END and are still making Recoveries but arguably it is turned off when you go to sleep because Constant powers require 'maintaining' and if you are unconscious, for any reason, you're not able to maintain the power as this requires at least a degree of concentration.  Of course you may take a different view, but the game certainly anticipates that Constant powers are not constantly on because you have to turn them of deliberately turn them on as it mentions that you may be vulnerable to surprise attacks  with Constant power.  I mean,  why wouldn't you turn them on first thing and leave them on unless they were Obvious and you didn't want to draw attention?  This does imply that they are off when you sleep.  Certainly you can not maintain a Constant power if you are Stunned.

 

OTOH LS: Does not need to sleep is only 3 points and Limited power: Sleeps normally but can maintain Constant Powers while sleeping is probably worth -1, so that would only cost a point.  Effectively you're sleeping but a bit of your brain doesn't need to and keeps things ticking over.

 

 

You can maintain a Constant Power if you are Stunned if you have made it Persistent. 

 

So, if normal Sleep does not zero your STUN and END and you allow Constant powers to work whilst you are asleep (as opposed to forcibly knocked unconscious) then that 'bit of your brain that keeps things ticking over' (Sub-Conscious? Autonomic Nervous System?) Whatever) needs to fuel them with END. You can voluntarily lower your Speed to usually (GM fiat) no less than 2, but that is possibly because you're awake. If you're sleeping then you technically have no actions (Speed 0?) but "your brain that is still ticking over" might constitute as 2 SPD or possibly just 1.

[Gauntlet]

4 hours ago, MrAgdesh said:

I think you mean Stunned. It turns off if he's Knocked Out. 

 

Not necessarily so, when doing a persistent power that requires END (most of the time they do not) you still pay the END beforehand. So it will stay up even when knocked out based on how much END you paid into it.

[Sean Waters]

17 minutes ago, MrAgdesh said:

You can maintain a Constant Power if you are Stunned if you have made it Persistent. 

 

So, if normal Sleep does not zero your STUN and END and you allow Constant powers to work whilst you are asleep (as opposed to forcibly knocked unconscious) then that 'bit of your brain that keeps things ticking over' (Sub-Conscious? Autonomic Nervous System?) Whatever) needs to fuel them with END. You can voluntarily lower your Speed to usually (GM fiat) no less than 2, but that is possibly because you're awake. If you're sleeping then you technically have no actions (Speed 0?) but "your brain that is still ticking over" might constitute as 2 SPD or possibly just 1.

 

Persistent means you do not need to maintain anything: you switch the power on and it just keeps going until you actively switch it off.

 

There are no specific rules, as far as I know, about sleep, but to be KO'd you have to be reduced to 0 Stun, and that does not happen with sleep, so I think there must be a qualitative difference.

 

If you are not Knocked out (on zero Stun or less) there's no reason to believe that your END automatically becomes zero, but you DO have to be able to take some sort of action in order to maintain a Constant power (6E1 45 says if your SPD is reduced to 0 you can not take actions and your Constant powers can not be maintained). 

 

You can not voluntarily reduce your SPD to zero, and even if you are KO'd you still get your recoveries each phase so long as you are no worse off than -10, so I presume you still 'act' at, at least, SPD 2 when asleep (it is odd you can not reduce your SPD to 1, given that a character could have a SPD 1.  Mind you, even a SPD 1 character drowns at SPD 2.  Anyway.  Never mind.)   It makes sense: you're trying to relax and slow down.

 

That means you would have to burn END twice per turn to maintain a Constant power while asleep but, as far as I know you can maintain a Constant power while taking a Recovery (otherwise if you did have a power that used END but was made Persistent you would lose your Recoveries on your phases when slightly unconscious), so you could get three Recoveries a Turn (2 SPD and PS12) if you were awake.  The Life Support suggestion was just that: effectively enough of you does not need to sleep to continue to take Recoveries and maintain Constant powers.  That would explain why you can spring up from sleep without having to take Recoveries.

[MrAgdesh]

1 hour ago, Gauntlet said:

 

Not necessarily so, when doing a persistent power that requires END (most of the time they do not) you still pay the END beforehand. So it will stay up even when knocked out based on how much END you paid into it.

I don't believe that's correct per 6E1

 

6E1 Pg 334;

 

"A Constant Power with this +¼ Advantage becomes a Persistent Power — it remains “turned
on” in situations when a Constant Power would turn off. If the Power costs END to maintain, then
it remains turned on as long as the character still has positive END to “fuel” it (he cannot spend
STUN in place of END; see 6E2 131). Thus, it continues to function even if the character is
Stunned, but turns off if the character’s Knocked Out (since being Knocked Out instantly reduces
a character’s END to 0)."

1 hour ago, Sean Waters said:

as far as I know you can maintain a Constant power while taking a Recovery (otherwise if you did have a power that used END but was made Persistent you would lose your Recoveries on your phases when slightly unconscious)

 Per 6E2 pg;

 

"A character who Recovers during a Phase may do nothing else. He cannot even maintain
a Constant Power (even if it only costs END to activate) or perform Actions that cost no END
or take no time. However, he may take a Zero Phase Action at the beginning of his Phase to
turn off a power, and Persistent Powers that don’t cost END remain in effect."

[LoneWolf]

Unless there are unusual circumstances combat begins on phase 12 6E2 page 18.  This is so that all characters get a chance to act at least once.  If combat does start on another phase there is a good chance the players cannot act.  Your phases are the segments you can act.  You can also abort to a defensive action in the segment after your phase is over.  That means a phase is still 1 second. 

 

Unless your opponent is extremely close to you or using a ranged weapon they will probably need to make a full move to get close enough to attack.  If they are using a ranged weapon they probably can attack you before you wake up anyways.  If they managed to sneak close enough to the characters that they can attack without using ranged weapons then the character standing watch was not doing their job. 

 

There are also thing that can be done to give the characters some protection.  Sleeping in a tent will not only offer protection from the elements it will also make the people sleeping in them difficult to see.  If you cannot see your target it is a lot harder to hit them.  With Fantasy Hero you also have the option of using magic to protect the characters.   You could use a barrier to create some defensive obstacles that the attackers have to deal with.  This would mean the characters gain a few phases to wake up.  Illusion of some sort can hide the campsite completely.