Order for Space Goblins!!! Help!

[GoldenAge]

I need a good name for the geneolology that spawns the different types of goblinoids...

For example (right or wrong)- all bird species (Aarakocra, Kenku, Chozo) in my TGU campaign will be lumped into the Avis pile - Cats (Kzinti, Leonid, Catian) will all be lumped into the Filidae pile and all canines (what are some dog-based sci-fi races??) will be categorized as Lupine. Of course, there are many species and races of each, only limited by imagination. But I need an easily understandable order (especially on my computer) and blanket labels for the myriad aliens one might find in the universe, since the options are infinite.

I'd like to do the same for Goblin, Hoggoblin, Orc (not 40K Oaks - They're plants), and any other goblinesque speceies.

Any ideas???

 

Edited April 26 by GoldenAge

[Lord Liaden]

I would suggest going back to the origin of such creatures in myth and folklore, the trolls of Scandinavia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

 

One of the early alternative root words for "troll" listed on that page might be suitable. Given your examples, IMO the Proto-German noun Trullan  sounds like a good choice.

[Steve]

Maybe they are all a type of primate?

[unclevlad]

To riff on LL...svartalfar.  "Dark elves."  And if you have brownies and leprechauns and sprites and the like?  The flip side is lyjosalfar...which is much more of a pain as a word, but hey....  Norse myth, the terms encompass broad collections of critters.  

 

For those that more specifically have some form of exotic power, there's also seelie and unseelie...which are much less about "light" and "dark" cuz *neither* group is what one would call 'nice.'  

[DShomshak]

So, this is apparently transplanting D&D races into a space setting. OK, why not. But do goblinoids have some distinct common origin that distinguishes them from other "bumphead" aliens? (I suppose that's implicit in the original "goblinoid" descriptor, but it doesn't hurt to check.) *Are* there other bumphead humanoids who aren't obvious animal-people or D&D expies?

 

Dean Shomshak

[GoldenAge]

TGU Alien Biology Framework

In our TGU game, we embrace a wide array of creatures from numerous sci-fi universes, including influences from Starfinder, Star Wars, Star Trek, Warhammer 40K, Mechwarrior, and many more. My goal is to develop a comprehensive taxonomy that can accommodate any species introduced into our game. This raises the question: Could species such as the Gorn from Star Trek, the Trandoshans from Star Wars, the Sleestaks, the Sathar, the Vesk, or even Grig from The Last Starfighter share a common evolutionary tree?

Indeed, all these species fit within a broad classification framework based on the standard biological taxonomy: Kingdom > Phylum > Class > Order > Family > Genus > Species. For simplicity, we'll skip the Dominion level and begin with the five primary Kingdoms currently utilized in our TGU setup:

1.  Monera - Originating from basic bacteria, this kingdom expands into various alien races like those evolved from E. coli.

2.  Protista - This includes species derived from organisms such as slime molds and algae, such as the Gelatins (e.g., Yaphit from The Orville and Spellik from Alien Legion).

3.  Plantae - Encompassing plant-based beings like Delvians from Farscape and even the plant-like Orcs from Warhammer 40K.

4.  Fungi - This kingdom includes species such as the Myconids from Dungeons & Dragons.

5.  Animalia - Encompassing more familiar animal-like beings, including humans.

The classification within the Animalia Kingdom, particularly the Phylum level, is where we focus significant attention:

Ecdysozoa - This group includes arthropod-like species such as the Cephalopods (e.g., Edgar the Bug from Men In Black) and the Crustacea (e.g., Mon Calamari from Star Wars).

Lophotrochozoa - Comprising primarily mollusk-derived species like the Quarren from Star Wars.

Deuterostomia - This phylum leads to bilaterally symmetrical animals, encompassing virtually all humanoid aliens in sci-fi, including those with creatively styled foreheads in Star Trek and even the Wookiees.

The focus then narrows to the Deuterostomia phyla, specifically to the Chordata phylum, the origin of all anthropomorphic aliens. Following this lineage, we arrive at the well-known Vertebrata subphylum. Preceding categories serve as mere precursors to these more complex forms.
 

The significance of this taxonomy is underscored by the presence of a "Precursors" narrative in our TGU universe, an ancient alien race purported to have seeded life across three galaxies. Similar concepts are found in various sci-fi stories, such as the Progenitors in Star Trek, the Engineers in Alien, or the First Ones from Babylon 5. This foundational mythology adds a layer of connectivity and mystery, enriching our game's universe.

[Lord Liaden]

You might also borrow the "Uplift" concept from David Brin's series of novels, in which sapient aliens perform genetic engineering on animal species to make them sapient as well. The newly-augmented races become "clients" of their "patron" uplifters, until the patrons become defunct in some way and their clients achieve independence. This process has apparently gone on since time immemorial. Many races believe there must have been an original "un-uplifted" race who started the whole thing, and for some their devotion to that concept verges on religious fervor.

Edited April 29 by Lord Liaden

[DShomshak]

4 hours ago, GoldenAge said:

Ecdysozoa - This group includes arthropod-like species such as the Cephalopods (e.g., Edgar the Bug from Men In Black) and the Crustacea (e.g., Mon Calamari from Star Wars).

Nitpick: RL cephalopods are mollusks. The inner anatomy of an octopus is more like that of a snail or a clam than it is like a lobster, bee, or any other arthropod.

 

But thank you for the background information. And some of the "alternate" phylum names are rather clever.

 

Dean Shomshak

[GDShore]

Your Deuterostomia does not cover a tri-lateral being or a quadrapedal. Although I suppose it could be shoehorn them into it.

[DShomshak]

Translated from the Greek roots, I would guess "Deuterostomia" means "Two Mouths." Stoma being often used for any opening in a body, such as the pores on plant leaves. Everything in the RL Chgordata phylum is basically a tube with a mouth at one end and an anus at the other, with the surrounding tissues variously elaborated.

 

So are arthropods, annelids, and unsegmented worms, for that matter, but I don't suppose the players really want a taxonomy lesson.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Chris Goodwin]

Part of me wants to see the name of the planet to which they're native appended.  So a Wookiee might be homo woquiius kashykkii while an Earth human would be homo sapiens terrae.  I'm not sure where a planet name would fit by actual taxonomic rules, though.

[Lord Liaden]

It always bugs me when sci-fi uses the name "humans" to designate homo sapiens, whereas aliens always seem to have either a distinctive species name, or the name of their home planet. SF author Ted White made the point that every sapient race calls itself a name that would translate to English as "human."

 

When I do sci-fi with multiple ET sapient species I always refer to us as "Terrans," and our planet as "Terra" rather than "Earth." It doesn't make sense to prioritize the English words when the majority of the planet uses other names. Terra is a root word in multiple prominent languages and has widespread international recognition and scientific applicability.

Edited May 6 by Lord Liaden

[Midas]

On 4/26/2024 at 4:07 PM, GoldenAge said:

(what are some dog-based sci-fi races??)
 

I can only think of two and a half.  Vargr from Traveller, and the Rauwoof from Space Opera.  The two are different enough that a first contact would be interesting.

The other...would Barsoomian calots count?

[Lord Liaden]

If Hero Universe references would be acceptable, there are a couple of humanoid canine-like sapient species described and written up in published books. Champions Beyond briefly describes the Pograckians, who look like humanoid dogs, including varying fur patterns often like those of Terrestrial canine breeds. For example, Pograckians might superficially resemble golden retrievers, cocker spaniels, or dalmatians. Digital Hero #6 has a full write-up and character sheet for a Pograckian, Doctor Gallok, a Marshal of the Star*Guard.

 

Speaking of DH, our own Michael "Susano" Surbrook contributed the M'Larrne, a race with features strongly resembling wolves (although having a few feline elements as well), to DH #23. That article provides significant detail on M'Larrne biology, society, culture, and military technology, as well as a character template and two full NPC write-ups (for Fifth Edition).

[Chris Goodwin]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:05 PM, Lord Liaden said:

When I do sci-fi with multiple ET sapient species I always refer to us as "Terrans," and our planet as "Terra" rather than "Earth." It doesn't make sense to prioritize the English words when the majority of the planet uses other names. Terra is a root word in multiple prominent languages and has widespread international recognition and scientific applicability.

 

Wouldn't most species similarly refer to their home planets by names that mean "the ground", "the land", or similar?  I think the best that we could hope for is either a transliteration of our spoken versions of our words for "people" and "land" respectively (probably in the language of whichever country makes contact with the aliens first) or a catalog number out of some registry somewhere.  "We are the 877206's from 9901-red triangle-red triangle-blue square-57." 

 

Also, why do designations in alien languages use our letters?  They would not call our system "9901-JJP-57"!

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

 

Wouldn't most species similarly refer to their home planets by names that mean "the ground", "the land", or similar?  I think the best that we could hope for is either a transliteration of our spoken versions of our words for "people" and "land" respectively (probably in the language of whichever country makes contact with the aliens first) or a catalog number out of some registry somewhere.  "We are the 877206's from 9901-red triangle-red triangle-blue square-57." 

 

 

Certainly they would refer to their home planets that way. If they use a spoken language, that would be a distinctive word in their language. In classic science fiction, when people who identify themselves as coming from Earth encounter aliens, those aliens usually refer to us as "Earthlings" or "Earthers." That convention is typically reciprocated by the aliens: Vulcans come from Vulcan, Minbari from Minbar, and so on. The numbering and symbology you describe would be appropriate and efficient for administrative purposes, but no person would want to introduce themselves that way, any more than one of us would identify our home by its latitude and longitude. We have no personal or emotional connection to that system, it's the name that means something to us.

 

Certainly there are exceptions to that rule. For example, the Klingons call their home world Kronos (the pronunciation of a word transliterated as "Qo'noS"). The published Hero Universe includes a number of alien races whose names for themselves are derived from other sources than their name for their world. For example, the Esagites call their entire race after the greatest philosophical and social reformer in their history, Lord Esagai. The insectile Se'ecra don't speak at all, communicating by a combination of gestures, fluttering of their vestigial wings, and scent cues. Their verbal name was given to them by a sapient species from a neighboring star system, the Se-lag. In their language "Se'ecra" means "wing talkers." The Se'ecra use Se-lag names for their people, their world (Ecra-shen), and themselves as individuals, whenever they deal with aliens.

 

3 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

 

Also, why do designations in alien languages use our letters?  They would not call our system "9901-JJP-57"!

 

Have you considered that your suggestion of a catalogue registry for planets and races would require the aliens to do exactly that?

Edited June 22 by Lord Liaden

[DentArthurDent]

Native American groups often referred to themselves as “people”. But usually the European travelers / pox-carriers met surrounding groups first. So, the first names they encountered for a group were often unflattering: Flathead, Swamp people, Big Hare people, Blackfeet. Or sometimes descriptive of the way the two peoples interacted: mountain people, traders, upriver, eastern people, islanders.

Something similar is the reason for many Celtic tribal names.

 

So, having a space-faring race named for a physical or social characteristic seems reasonable.

 

[Duke Bushido]

On 5/6/2024 at 4:05 PM, Lord Liaden said:

. SF author Ted White made the point that every sapient race calls itself a name that would translate to English as "human."

 

And practical humour author Phil Foglio pointed out that all planets are named "Dirt." (Especially That Place Which Hilds Our Roots Most Securely)

 

There is a line to maintain between practical and most likely and actually interesting.

 

For example, the above-mentioned Wookies will _never_ be from a planet called Kashiik, simply because two of the three aounda composing the name Kashiik are not producable by wookie throats.  D2or that matter, niether is the word "wookie." 

 

So humans from earth,or terra (_both_ on which mean "Dirt") or wherever.  Humans, terrans, earthlings, Homo Sapiens (ironically, each of these exactly means "those with the power to name things into a list") or whatever else.

 

No matter how you feel about individual names of races or planets and their origins, there is something of a set dressing in scientific records- universalizing them among nations has not always been friction free; what steps would we take if our taxonomy had to cover a living galactic society spread across a thousand worlds?

 

I don't really know just how I would things (it has never directly come up that we couldn't waive it off somehow),  but for other folks, having a format- an agreed-upon methodology feels more "sciency" than does the origin of the worlds.

 

 

 

[DShomshak]

Coming up with names for aliens and their worlds for my Champions campaigns, it's a mix.

 

Some planet names are reasonably close to what a dominant culture says, such as "Jethria," "Rithone," or "Isere." Since this is a comic-book world, nothing sounds too exotic to contemporary American players.

 

Other names come from the star, or the constellation that shows the direction to the home system as seen from Earth. So, the Volantid star system is in the direction of the constellation Volans, the Flying Fish. The Aran home system is in the direction of Ara, the Altar. Arcturans don't come from Arcturus, but that star system holds their largest local gathering place.

 

A few are attempts at description, such as the pulsar planet Irradion, whose most distinctive characteristic is that it gets blasted with hard radiation twice a second.

 

Zetrians come from the star Zetria, or Zeta Trianguli Australis. Their names for themselves and their world, in their dominant language, is known because of visitors such as the hero Officer Pax, but their language uses lots of click sounds that are easy for some Africans to pronounce but nearly impossible for anyone else.

 

Alsafians come from the star Sigma Draconis. Their name is also known because of that time they tried invading Earth, but it sounds a lot like a very rude word in English. "Draconian" would be an easy coinage, except it makes them sound like they should be reptilian, and they aren't. "Alsafi" is the proper name given to the star from old Arabic star charts.

 

Arans are culturally and politically fragmented and using somebody else's name for world and species is grounds for a fight. If you don't know the polite and correct word for an Aran, call them Arans. They'll think you're just stupid instead of deliberately rude.

 

Many alien names are impossible for humans to transcribe, or even to speak. The Volantid name for themselves sounds like a passage of clarinet music, while the Irradian name is a series of magnetic pulses. So, humans have to make something up.

 

Dean Shomshak