2021-22 Basketball Thread

[Michael Hopcroft]

On 6/16/2022 at 8:20 PM, Pariah said:

Bass player for Primus, right?

That would be Les Claypool. One of the most creative bassists in rock. Among his many cands are Primus, Les Claypool's Frog Bregade, and The Cl;aypool-Lennon Delirium (a collaboration with John Lennon's son Sean Ono Lennon,)

[Pariah]

Well, these are hideous. (With the exception of the purple throwback, which is at least historically connected to the team's identity.)

 

Utah Jazz unveil new jerseys as part of rebrand

 

 

 

Blech. 

[unclevlad]

The white looks OK.  The black and gold look like AAU jerseys from the 50's.

 

I could see getting a t-shirt version of the blue/purple one...but not with that badge on the right.  

[Pariah]

Agreed in most particulars, although I won't dignify that third jersey by calling it gold. To me, it's mustard yellow.

 

As far as the badge goes, it's somewhat less egregious than most uniform ads the NBA is running right now. It's for a non-profit run by the new team owner that focuses on raising money for cancer research.

[unclevlad]

I sit corrected.  Officially listed as yellow, but that doesn't even come close to the listed team color.  Current listing is a yellow, but it's (249, 160, 20) in RGB.  Pure yellow is equal parts red and green, and no blue...altho some blue is basically just gonna lighten the color some.  249,160 is definitely closer to orange.  That jersey is much closer to a Dayglo or neon yellow.  Doesn't help that it's way too close to Oregon's or Baylor's yellow...2 of the most hideous basketball jerseys in all of college hoops.....

[BNakagawa]

One aspect of the Wiggins trade that hasn't gotten a lot of attention is that he, like Kawhi Leonard, did not want to get vaccinated against Covid-19.

 

Both he and Leonard play for teams that mandated that the unvaxxed would not be allowed to play in their team's home games. After some consultations with the team management, Wiggins ended up getting the jab, while Kawhi did not.

Fast forward and Wiggins was an all star game starter and NBA champion and Leonard's team, picked by many to be the Eastern Conference Champions, ended up swept out of the playoffs.

 

Talent is critical, but being coachable, both on and off the court, makes a huge difference.

[unclevlad]

It isn't that he's not coachable.  Kyrie is delusional.  (You meant the other K, I'm sure.  Kawhi got the shot, and is with the Clips.)

 

And today, apparently, the ONLY team pursuing a sign and trade for Kyrie is the Lakers.  Some of this is that trying to absorb that contract is non-trivial.  Most of it is, the Lakers are desperate morons.

[BNakagawa]

8 hours ago, unclevlad said:

It isn't that he's not coachable.  Kyrie is delusional.  (You meant the other K, I'm sure.  Kawhi got the shot, and is with the Clips.)

 

And today, apparently, the ONLY team pursuing a sign and trade for Kyrie is the Lakers.  Some of this is that trying to absorb that contract is non-trivial.  Most of it is, the Lakers are desperate morons.

 Ah yes, thanks for catching that. On the subject of not being coachable, isn't he the one with the quote about not seeing the team as having a head coach? It was a while ago, so I forget.

[unclevlad]

I was intending "delusional" to be rather more denigrating that simply "uncoachable"...so, OK, he may well be both.   

 

The NBA's biggest issue, IMO, is the sheer number of their most-hyped players that are.....flakes?  jerks?  self-centered pinheads?  Take your pick.  Kyrie, Simmons, LBJ belongs there now, Harden...the worst offenders.  All of em team wreckers, IMO.  Very poor for the league's rep.  

[Grailknight]

Meanwhile, the rich get richer.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34158737/john-wall-set-join-la-clippers-reaching-buyout-houston-rockets-sources-say#:~:text=John Wall set to join LA Clippers after reaching buyout with Houston Rockets%2C sources say

 

This is huge. Wall is an All-Star talent bordering on Superstardom. The Clippers were already a contender if healthy with Leonard and George. Wall gives them a PG who can put up 20, 10 & 5 every night with above average defense. If I was in charge in Denver, I'd pull an old baseball trick and put in a waiver claim.

 

 

[Grailknight]

3 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

I was intending "delusional" to be rather more denigrating that simply "uncoachable"...so, OK, he may well be both.   

 

The NBA's biggest issue, IMO, is the sheer number of their most-hyped players that are.....flakes?  jerks?  self-centered pinheads?  Take your pick.  Kyrie, Simmons, LBJ belongs there now, Harden...the worst offenders.  All of em team wreckers, IMO.  Very poor for the league's rep.  

 

I agree with you about most of that list but LBJ should not be on it.

 

After the immaturity of "The Decision", (Which I hated with the power of a billion blazing suns. But thinking upon calmly about it realize that it would have been cool if he had let Cleveland know he was leaving the day before) he hasn't made any big faux pas. He's been a model citizen and family man, a successful businessman, and a solid social activist. And on the court, he's delivered championships to every team he's played for while not missing games or pouting.

 

He has a worse public perception than MJ but that's because of the way media digs into stars then and now. Interviews with their peers will come away with most saying LBJ is a decent guy while MJ is an A-Hole.

[unclevlad]

19 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

Meanwhile, the rich get richer.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34158737/john-wall-set-join-la-clippers-reaching-buyout-houston-rockets-sources-say#:~:text=John Wall set to join LA Clippers after reaching buyout with Houston Rockets%2C sources say

 

This is huge. Wall is an All-Star talent bordering on Superstardom. The Clippers were already a contender if healthy with Leonard and George. Wall gives them a PG who can put up 20, 10 & 5 every night with above average defense. If I was in charge in Denver, I'd pull an old baseball trick and put in a waiver claim.

 

 

 

And Wall's also got an extensive injury history.  Feels almost a foregone conclusion that one of the three won't play more than half the team's games.

 

Wall's also a bit of a concern, in that while he's got good numbers for his career, it's come with mediocre teams.  His 4 most durable hears (13-14 through 16-17, the Wizards made the playoffs in 3 of em....and won first round matchups as the 4 or 5 seed.  But that's also in the Eastern Conference, which was...shaky, to say the least...in that period.  Then came a nasty injury history, and the whole Wall/Beal issue boiled over.  

 

Then with the Rockets, things didn't exactly go swimmingly.  The Rockets are willing to eat that massive salary because they don't see him being happy in a rebuild.  I can get that...but I can also see another flake, when you combine that with the issues in DC.  

 

For the Clips, they may get a window.  If Wall only costs *them* that midlevel exception, he's dirt cheap.  Their core issue is the same as the Lakers, to a degree:  too much money tied to 2 players in the same part of the court.  The Lakers toss Westbrook into the mix, which gives them no room to do anything.  Wall at full expense would create a similar situation...but not at the midlevel exception range.  But the Clips may still have serious issues with overall roster depth.  And while I do love Kawhi, I'm not a huge Paul George fan.  I don't trust him in the clutch, in the playoffs.

[unclevlad]

27 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

 

I agree with you about most of that list but LBJ should not be on it.

 

After the immaturity of "The Decision", (Which I hated with the power of a billion blazing suns. But thinking upon calmly about it realize that it would have been cool if he had let Cleveland know he was leaving the day before) he hasn't made any big faux pas. He's been a model citizen and family man, a successful businessman, and a solid social activist. And on the court, he's delivered championships to every team he's played for while not missing games or pouting.

 

He has a worse public perception than MJ but that's because of the way media digs into stars then and now. Interviews with their peers will come away with most saying LBJ is a decent guy while MJ is an A-Hole.

 

But he's never stopped being anything but a mercenary.  As a basketball player, he thinks he's bigger than the game.  He did win the title with the Lakers...but in a bizarre, SHORT season, with an extended R&R in there.  Plus, I'm focusing on now.  He's 37.  He's missed a fair number of games.  Lakers were shaky in 20-21, and horrible in 21-22.  And I blame James...partly for the moves he wanted made, and partly because of the moves he indirectly forced, this season.  

[Grailknight]

18 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

And Wall's also got an extensive injury history.  Feels almost a foregone conclusion that one of the three won't play more than half the team's games.

 

Wall's also a bit of a concern, in that while he's got good numbers for his career, it's come with mediocre teams.  His 4 most durable hears (13-14 through 16-17, the Wizards made the playoffs in 3 of em....and won first round matchups as the 4 or 5 seed.  But that's also in the Eastern Conference, which was...shaky, to say the least...in that period.  Then came a nasty injury history, and the whole Wall/Beal issue boiled over.  

 

Then with the Rockets, things didn't exactly go swimmingly.  The Rockets are willing to eat that massive salary because they don't see him being happy in a rebuild.  I can get that...but I can also see another flake, when you combine that with the issues in DC.  

 

For the Clips, they may get a window.  If Wall only costs *them* that midlevel exception, he's dirt cheap.  Their core issue is the same as the Lakers, to a degree:  too much money tied to 2 players in the same part of the court.  The Lakers toss Westbrook into the mix, which gives them no room to do anything.  Wall at full expense would create a similar situation...but not at the midlevel exception range.  But the Clips may still have serious issues with overall roster depth.  And while I do love Kawhi, I'm not a huge Paul George fan.  I don't trust him in the clutch, in the playoffs.

 

Wall's injuries were all in a two year period and he sat out a year to recover. When he came back in 20-21, gave them 20 and 7 before they shut him down to aid their tanking. He'll be 3 years removed from the IR and is still only 31. He can choose any team he wants for the mid-level and be welcomed. He should definitely wait to see what other offers are out there(especially if Brunson leaves Dallas).

[Grailknight]

4 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

But he's never stopped being anything but a mercenary.  As a basketball player, he thinks he's bigger than the game.  He did win the title with the Lakers...but in a bizarre, SHORT season, with an extended R&R in there.  Plus, I'm focusing on now.  He's 37.  He's missed a fair number of games.  Lakers were shaky in 20-21, and horrible in 21-22.  And I blame James...partly for the moves he wanted made, and partly because of the moves he indirectly forced, this season.  

 

He wasn't being a mercenary when he returned to Cleveland. That was him keeping the faith with his hometowns fans. 

 

And as a general aside, we as fans need to stop demonizing athletes for exercising their right to change employers. I've had jobs that I loved but would have left for an offer of double my salary and benefits in a heartbeat. When you can only work in your best profession for a few years, you have to maximize what you can get.

 

NBA careers last 3-4 years on average and sports is actually the closest thing we have to Meritocracy.  In most jobs if you're popular, competent and a hard worker, you have job security.  In sports if they find someone better than you, you're out and we make the off-field stuff work with the new guy.

 

We subconsciously envy and resent the bigger stars when they apply the same criteria to the team and use the demand for their services to move to what they feel is a better situation. If I had the skills to make Fortune 500 companies engage in a bidding war for me, then of course I'm gonna go with the best offer. But that's something that reserved for elite talents in their fields.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Durant is asking for a trade. 

 

Why does that make me laugh so much? 

[unclevlad]

I'm surprised by this...right now I'm trying to decide if I should've been or not....

 

YMMV but this is pretty much the last word on the toxicity of Kyrie...maybe Simmons too, but definitely Kyrie.

[Starlord]

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

 

 

[Pariah]

I had to break out the world's tiniest violin this morning whilst reading this article:

 

NBA fines Warriors owner Joe Lacob $500,000 for calling league's luxury tax system 'very unfair,' per report

 

It's hard for me to sympathize with billionaires complaining about having to spend money, especially when they've just won a title. But as I thought about it, a different idea came to my mind. Hear me out.

 

I say we eliminate the luxury tax. If a team is willing to spend more than salary cap allows, it's clear that money isn't that big a deterrent. Owners will grouse about it, but when it comes right down to what they're going to spend what they feel they need to spend.

 

Instead, how about this? If a team violates the salary cap, penalize them a draft pick. Minor overexpenditures cost you a second round pick, major violations cost you a first round pick. Particularly egregious violations might cost you both.

 

In essence, you're trading away the future for the presence. The salary structure already does this to an extent, and teams that really want to win now don't necessarily care about draft picks (e.g. the 2021-22 Los Angeles Rams). 

 

It's entertaining to think about, anyway.