And yet another reason the world seems to be getting less and less intelligent....

[assault]

If Batman's not a superhero, then neither are half of all the superheroes that have ever been published.

 

As for Flash Gordon, as Starlord pointed out above, the case of Adam Strange is relevant. But that really just points out the fuzzy boundaries involved. See superheroic magic versus horror for another example, and there are others.

[Pariah]

Zorro?

 

Dick Tracy?

 

The Scarlet Pimpernel?

[Tjack]

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

Zorro?

 

Dick Tracy?

 

The Scarlet Pimpernel?

uh.......Names guys give their privates!
            (You have to picture the whole $25,000.00 Pyramid set for this to work.)

[unclevlad]

5 minutes ago, Tjack said:

uh.......Names guys give their privates!
            (You have to picture the whole $25,000.00 Pyramid set for this to work.)

 

It still didn't.....

[BoloOfEarth]

9 hours ago, Tjack said:

uh.......Names guys give their privates!

 

So, what do they name their corporals and sergeants? 

[Hermit]

I corrected the title. I expect no accolades for this.

 

I also resisted the urge to change the title to "Y Earth more stupidhead!"

I feel I deserve at least a golf clap for that display of willpower,  perhaps an indulgent "Yes yes, you're very pretty"

 

[BoloOfEarth]

12 minutes ago, Hermit said:

I corrected the title. I expect no accolades for this.

 

I also resisted the urge to change the title to "Y Earth more stupidhead!"

I feel I deserve at least a golf clap for that display of willpower,  perhaps an indulgent "Yes yes, you're very pretty"

 

 

Huzzah!  Huzzah!  All hail the Great and Powerful Hermit!

 

I kinda thought the misspelled title was actually fitting.  Though your proposed change would have been good too.

[Starlord]

21 minutes ago, Hermit said:

I corrected the title. I expect no accolades for this.

 

I also resisted the urge to change the title to "Y Earth more stupidhead!"

I feel I deserve at least a golf clap for that display of willpower,  perhaps an indulgent "Yes yes, you're very pretty"

 

 

I thought the title was perfect as is...kind of like the song "Ironic" unintentionally becomes ironic because it has no irony, just unfortune coincidences.

 

This workd is not a better place for the change, sir. 

[death tribble]

Thanks to Hermit for the revision

[Hermit]

1 hour ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

Huzzah!  Huzzah!  All hail the Great and Powerful Hermit!

 

I kinda thought the misspelled title was actually fitting.  Though your proposed change would have been good too.

 

I am placated!

I see your point but it was requested so ...

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

 

I thought the title was perfect as is...kind of like the song "Ironic" unintentionally becomes ironic because it has no irony, just unfortune coincidences.

 

This workd is not a better place for the change, sir. 

I'm sensing a trend here. Oh dear. 

1 hour ago, death tribble said:

Thanks to Hermit for the revision

Okay..

YW. Now you guys fight for my amusement *Eats grapes*

 

no don't do that. that's bad.

 

 

[Starlord]

30 minutes ago, Hermit said:

YW. Now you guys fight for my amusement *Eats grapes*

 

no don't do that. that's bad.

 

 

 

I am not fighting a tribble, it would be...undignified.

[BarretWallace]

On 11/7/2020 at 9:54 PM, Tjack said:

   I’m in too good a mood today to debate with you.  What ever you say is fine with me.   Arguments are down the hall on the left sir.

Oh, I thought this room was abuse.... 😉

[Pariah]

Hermit, the fact is that you are pretty. So very, very pretty.

[Spence]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:54 PM, Tjack said:

   I’m in too good a mood today to debate with you.  What ever you say is fine with me.   Arguments are down the hall on the left sir.

 

Argument?

Well nevermind.

Have fun out there.

 

 

[Tjack]

1 hour ago, BarretWallace said:

Oh, I thought this room was abuse.... 😉

That’s a different website entirely.

5 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

So, what do they name their corporals and sergeants? 

You’re expected to call them SIR.  Now drop and give me twenty!

[Spence]

16 hours ago, assault said:

If Batman's not a superhero, then neither are half of all the superheroes that have ever been published.

 

As for Flash Gordon, as Starlord pointed out above, the case of Adam Strange is relevant. But that really just points out the fuzzy boundaries involved. See superheroic magic versus horror for another example, and there are others.

 

They are not "superheroes".

 

Some are Pulp heroes, or just heroic adventurers.

 

Just because people became lazy and started calling everything

"superheroes" doesn't mean they are.

 

Batman has always been a "masked avenger" Pulp style, not a SUPERhero.  Green Hornet, The Spyder and The Shadow are all in this category.  Though The Shadow did have his hypnotic powers. Even Batman used 45's.

 

But at least they are kind of "good guys" even when being hunted by the police.

 

But what really is insane is referring to outright villains and actual monsters as "superheroes". 

 

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

 

 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

"Intelligent" is misspelled, too, ironically.   But this is the Internet. Typos are the least of our problems.

Yep, really frustrating when trying to post via the phone.  Tiny screen, tiny type and constantly being "helped".

[Spence]

22 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

When I think of "superhero," I think of someone who can do extraordinary things that normal people can't, in the name of helping and protecting people, at great personal risk and cost, and according to a moral code. I would call comic-book Batman a superhero, because his brilliance, skill, and force of will are beyond a real-world human; he may not follow the letter of the law, but he's devoted to its spirit; all his actions are aimed at shutting down those who prey on the innocent; and he arose out of tragedy, but has given up a normal life for the sake of keeping other people safe to have their own.

 

For me the word superhero is a compound word.  In order to be a superhero you must a) have super (far greater that humanly possible) abilities and no less important b) be a hero as in good guy.

 

Batman is a example of a skilled normal that operates outside the law and kills people.  Even if you consider his abilities to be "super" he continues to not meet the "good guy" checkbook. But he isn't the primary example.

 

Suicide Squad, Deadpool and Venom are all consistently referred to as superheroes.  They are not.  They are supervillains, supervillain and maneating monster.

 

I really enjoy reading Batman, but easily follow that he is a vigilante and is perfectly willing to kill off a crook.  He has even knocked out and bound police so he could kill off crooks.  Physically he operates at the upper end of the humanly possible.  But he rarely goes beyond that.  When he does it is usually via a single use device specifically designed to meet the threat. 

 

To be clear, if Batman always used his tech to always operate at superhuman levels, then I would lean superhuman for him like Ironman.  Super-vigilante not superhero.

 

I guess my primary issue is the difference between Hero and Villain or Vigilante or outright Monster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[unclevlad]

It also depends on which Batman you're talking about, as to whether 'super' fits or not.  And, should the ability to operate at "super" levels when needed, in the normal course of his actions, not ultimately imply he is a super?  The fact that it's intermittent at best isn't particularly compelling to me.  If it was only because he put on a super-suit, when that's exceptionally rare...that wouldn't count, but when he generally carries around the stuff, it does, IMO.

 

Hero...to start with, recognize that "superhero" is almost implicit for every mainstream character from Marvel or DC.  At the higher levels, it becomes a member of the collective term "superhero comics" despite the isolated anti-hero, vigilante, or outright villain being the main character.

 

Then:  Batman is a founding member of the JLA (1960).  Of the JUSTICE League.  AFAIK he's never left it.  Batman was *long* associated with the Gotham PD through Commissioner Gordon, meaning he was staying on the good side of the law...maybe just barely.  

 

Batman's got a long, LONG history, and even for the comics, a messy one.  It doesn't help that DC's publishing history has been a confused, muddled MESS recently, with the apparently multiple complete reboots.  So it's not all that clear even from a pedantic standpoint that "vigilante" is correct...and it's absolutely not true that it's the sole characterization that fits.  Saying that "Batman is NOT a superhero" will draw ridicule from virtually anyone who only casually follows this sort of thing, and IMO at best "you're really splitting hairs" from even serious supers types.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

One objection to your analysis, Spence: I specified "comic-book Batman." Various movie Batmans kill. Outside of some "what-if," alternate-world type stories, comic-book Batman never kills. He refuses to cross that line, for fear he'd keep going farther. He won't make any child live the loss that he did. It's one of his defining characteristics, and often puts him at odds with more ruthless vigilantes.

[tombrown803]

So, what do they name their corporals and sergeants?  

You’re expected to call them SIR.  Now drop and give me twenty!

 

You don't call them Sir, they work for a living

[Bazza]

Superheroes:

A postmodern de-mythologised polytheism empowered by Greek heroism. Or: extraordinary people empowered with great courage and capacity for justice who see the world is broken; show up to their mission to create a better one.

[Lord Liaden]

I have to disagree that the Greek model of heroism is what the modern superhero is powered by. The heroes of classical myth were rarely motivated by ethics -- they were most often selfish and ruled by their passions. The underlying principles that motivate most modern superheroes are very rooted in American cultural ideals: truth, justice, and the rule of law; the responsibility of the strong to protect the weak; self-sacrifice for the greater good; extraordinary beings who treat less gifted people as fundamentally their equals, worthy of respect.

[Pariah]

6 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

The underlying principles that motivate most modern superheroes are very rooted in American cultural ideals: truth, justice, and the rule of law; the responsibility of the strong to protect the weak; self-sacrifice for the greater good; extraordinary beings who treat less gifted people as fundamentally their equals, worthy of respect.

 

Yeah, what ever happened to all of that, anyway?

[Starlord]

This?

 

 

With a side of this?

 

 

Sprinkled with this?

 

[Grailknight]

32 minutes ago, Starlord said:

This?

 

 

With a side of this?

 

 

Sprinkled with this?

 

 

Even in Miller's classic, Batman doesn't kill. It's my biggest problem with the DC films especially BvS. They didn't take the right lessons from the material.

 

For all their edginess and militaristic combat, X-Force had  a minimal kill count. They did a lot of wounding of people who had regeneration tho'.

 

The Punisher is a villain He's an organized serial killer/terrorist who just happens to target only criminals. Giving him so many appearances was a concession to economics and fandom demand. And they pretty much separated him from the mainstream books and kept him travelling about the country to work it out.